33 replies to this topic

[Cy Mitchell]

I posted this in the Suggestion forum but thought I would post it here also to generate some discussion and get some feedback on the idea.


I am proposing a new consumable for MWO.



The Vibrabomb would be a land mine that could be equipped and deployed by Mechs that weigh under 40 tons. In BattleTech lore, these mines could be deployed and set to detonate when a Mech of a specific tonnage range entered the proximity of the mine. In MWO this ability to adjust the tonnage that triggers the mine would be a problem and needlessly complicated. Therefore, for the purpose of MWO, they would be deployed by a Mech under 40 tons or less and detonate when a Mech weighing in excess of 40 tons enters the detonation proximity of the mine and the blast area would be the same size as an artillery strike and use the same special effects.

The benefits of adding this consumable to the game are:
Gives Light/light Medium Mechs an important additional battlefield role.
Gives a team an area of denial mechanic that does not currently exist in the game.
Provides strategic opportunities such as:
- means to defend base or strategic point
-tool to control enemy movement
-additional damage source
Gives Mech under 40 tons an additional possible defensive system

Restricting the deployment of the vibrabombs to Mechs under 40 tons provides several benefits in MWO.

First, it provides Lights and light/Mediums, which are seldom used, a role that only they can perform. That means that teams will want more Mechs that can perform this function. As long as players are properly rewarded in terms of damage dealt and compensated with C-Bills and Exp for the deploying of mines then it will be a popular addition for the Pilots of these Mechs.

A second benefit to the general gameplay is that it adds the opportunity for strategies that involve mining certain areas on the maps. For example, a team could mine a choke point to cause the enemy to approach from a direction that could be better defended. Or they could chose to mine an area around their base to help defend it. They could also mine the area behind their advance when NASCARing to surprise the enemy units that are closing on their rearmost units.

Finally, it would add another possible source of income for PGI as a consumable that could be sold for MC as well as C-Bills much like the current Air Strike and Artillery Strike.

Additional suggestion for Vibrabomb effects:
-Damage could be focused on primarily on legs with possible splash damage to adjacent components similar to a Clan erPPC strike.
-In addition to damage dealt the Vibrabomb could also provide a short duration UAV effect so that any Mech in the blast radius would be shown on radar for a few seconds.
-Deployed Vibrabombs could be visible on friendly Mech radar to help avoid damage to teammates.
-Vibrabombs could lie on the surface and be seen by enemy Mech but their small size would make spotting them difficult.


Comments?

Edited by Rampage, 28 January 2017 - 09:18 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Questions as they applies to balance.....

Duration of the wee minefield?
Does the entire minefield go off when one goes off or just the one (meaning the remainder of this small minefield persists and see question one for how long).

I could see this being a nightmare from a balance perspective, but I'm certainly not one to say "never" when it comes to PvP tweaks in games.

[Cy Mitchell]

Lukoi Banacek, on 28 January 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Questions as they applies to balance.....

Duration of the wee minefield?
Does the entire minefield go off when one goes off or just the one (meaning the remainder of this small minefield persists and see question one for how long).

I could see this being a nightmare from a balance perspective, but I'm certainly not one to say "never" when it comes to PvP tweaks in games.

I envision that the mines, once deployed, would remain in play until detonated or the game ends.

Blast area would be approximately that of an artillery strike. I would suggest that each Vibrabomb would only provide one explosion but that a Mech could choose to equip two (unlike Airstrike and Artillery strike). Alternatively, the blast radius could be smaller but one consumable would be good for three mines amd only one could be equipped.

As you say, these things would have to be determined from a balance standpoint.

[MechaBattler]

I'm still waiting on tank and elemental consumables. It was mentioned once in a town hall and they never brought it up again

[Cy Mitchell]

MechaBattler, on 28 January 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

I'm still waiting on tank and elemental consumables. It was mentioned once in a town hall and they never brought it up again

Those would be cool. This one would be a lot easier due to no AI. That might make it possible.

Edited by Rampage, 28 January 2017 - 09:20 AM.

[DjKonline]

while on the added consumables option. how about a ECM consumable that drops one of the points like in escort ( give it a 1 minute time and still leave option to be flipped )

[Lukoi Banacek]

Rampage, on 28 January 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

I envision that the mines, once deployed, would remain in play until detonated or the game ends.

Blast area would be approximately that of an artillery strike. I would suggest that each Vibrabomb would only provide one explosion but that a Mech could choose to equip two (unlike Airstrike and Artillery strike). Alternatively, the blast radius could be smaller but one consumable would be good for three mines amd only one could be equipped.

As you say, these things would have to be determined from a balance standpoint.

With that kind of duration, there's little risk vs reward in never taking strikes again vs VB's so I don't that's a good idea. The duration of the mine(s) until they self-detonate or simply expire probably has to be limited. Otherwise, knowledgeable vets will simply lock down choke points with these puppies and stop worrying about them.

You said they can be seen, another consideration is whether or not an opponent can destroy them with weapons/strikes as a countermeasure.

[Undercover Brother]

Either there has to be a time limit to the minefield, OR... Each consumable gives the player only 2 mines (no minefield/2 uses).

I LOVE the idea. It could allow better control of choke points by lights against Heavies and Assaults. Two or three lights could potentially stall an advance with Vibrobombs (even with only 4 total mines) and a few potshots, while the rest of their team flanks.

The DRAWBACK to this minefield should be that ONLY the minelayer should be able to SEE the mine once it's been placed, meaning that any friendly unit that accidently steps inside the activation/blast radius can set it off, will.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

I would support only if you could set them off with weapons/strikes and explosion of one would detonate other ones lain very close by - otherwise I fear it will be easily abused by totally locking enemy access through certain narrow passages, and become more of an annoyance than anything. A trap should be a trap, it's better to lay it somewhere where the enemy doesn't expect it so he actually misses it, steps on it. With indestructible ones that are actually useful, we would quickly get the "mine meta" for all the maps and get mines laid down in the same places over and over again. And/or most 'normal' players would not use it (expected mine = no damage = no rewards, but it would be abused by organised groups and become another little thing contributing to the vast gap between organised groups and small groups/pugs the game already has problem with.

EDIT: all in all, it seems like a nice idea, but we are in a pvp environment, so possible ways to abuse should be identified and dealt with beforehand.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 28 January 2017 - 11:35 AM.

[RestosIII]

I don't think consumables should have been added in the first place, so no, I don't want even more added in.

[Cy Mitchell]

Lukoi Banacek, on 28 January 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

With that kind of duration, there's little risk vs reward in never taking strikes again vs VB's so I don't that's a good idea. The duration of the mine(s) until they self-detonate or simply expire probably has to be limited. Otherwise, knowledgeable vets will simply lock down choke points with these puppies and stop worrying about them.

You said they can be seen, another consideration is whether or not an opponent can destroy them with weapons/strikes as a countermeasure.

T Decker, on 28 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Either there has to be a time limit to the minefield, OR... Each consumable gives the player only 2 mines (no minefield/2 uses).

I LOVE the idea. It could allow better control of choke points by lights against Heavies and Assaults. Two or three lights could potentially stall an advance with Vibrobombs (even with only 4 total mines) and a few potshots, while the rest of their team flanks.

The DRAWBACK to this minefield should be that ONLY the minelayer should be able to SEE the mine once it's been placed, meaning that any friendly unit that accidently steps inside the activation/blast radius can set it off, will.

Yes, making them visible but relatively small so they can be missed if you are not being observant or are distracted. Also, I had thought about them being destructible. That is a good idea as long as they are not so easily eliminated as to make them a waste to even bring. These would be individual mines so it would be difficult to mine an entire area unless you brought a lot of sub-40ton Mech which were all equipped with them, Still that would be a strategy if a team wanted to make that much of a commitment. You could also restrict a Mech that is carrying Vibrabombs from carrying Air or Artillery strikes to make it more of a decision.

Edited by Rampage, 28 January 2017 - 12:59 PM.

[Accused]

We need mines. The hows and why can't be hammered out later.

[Kargush]

I'll give it 2 seconds before someone "accidentally" drops it in a formation of team mates for giggles.

[Maker L106]

I want to see the aftermath of this in a PuG QP session of 12 semi organized people and 12 rando's. The ensuing rage would sustain a small star for eons.

[Cy Mitchell]

Kargush, on 28 January 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

I'll give it 2 seconds before someone "accidentally" drops it in a formation of team mates for giggles.

Is there a reason why this would be any more likely than someone dropping and Air Strike or Artillery Strike in a formation of teammates?

[CK16]

IMO rather see a plasma bomb or napalm bomb consumable...No damage just makes an area of denial weapon as it lays down a patch of fire that heats mechs up if they are in it (similar to lava ect.). Stuff like that and it would not invalidate like current airstrike or arty strike

[Cy Mitchell]

CK16, on 28 January 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

IMO rather see a plasma bomb or napalm bomb consumable...No damage just makes an area of denial weapon as it lays down a patch of fire that heats mechs up if they are in it (similar to lava ect.). Stuff like that and it would not invalidate like current airstrike or arty strike

That is a good idea too. I do not do GIFs (hate them on a forum - wasted bandwidth) but if I did I would put that cute little girl up here. Neither mines or incendiaries should replace Art and Air the serve similar but different strategic functions in the game.

[Kargush]

Rampage, on 28 January 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Is there a reason why this would be any more likely than someone dropping and Air Strike or Artillery Strike in a formation of teammates?

Artillery and air strikes have a nice smoke marker. And once used, it goes away. A vibra bomb could be left, unnoticable, and then leg whatever mech comes along. One joker is all we need. Heck, we just need one mech with the consumable not paying attention during a nascar, and you lose a leg.

[CK16]

An attack that could do instant legging? That would be broken sorry. It would have to remain 30 points of damage (same as current arty and air strikes hit for per component). Could do 30 to a single leg and less to surround parts maybe or 20 dmg to each leg...It would hurt light mechs something fierce though but assault would brush it off as should.

[Cy Mitchell]

CK16, on 28 January 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

An attack that could do instant legging? That would be broken sorry. It would have to remain 30 points of damage (same as current arty and air strikes hit for per component). Could do 30 to a single leg and less to surround parts maybe or 20 dmg to each leg...It would hurt light mechs something fierce though but assault would brush it off as should.

Light Mechs are under 40T so it would not affect them at all.Anything over 40T could detonate the bombs. The only way a Light would take damage is if it was in the blast area at the same time as a larger Mech detonated it.

Also the damage should not be high enough to destroy a healthy leg on any 40T+ Mech. Rather it should be enough to strip significant armor or destroy an already damaged leg. Now, try wading through a couple of them and the result would be the loss of a leg.

Edited by Rampage, 01 February 2017 - 04:26 AM.