105 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

BLOOD WOLF, on 29 January 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

Then stop camping near the base then when you get crushed the enemy is only a grid or two away.

How are these problems created by a complete lack of player awareness a bold assertion to remove the entire game mode?

I've never camped near the base, and I've never been spawn camped*, I've always been the one spawn camping the enemy. There's no way around it. You crush them on the first wave 12-0 or 12-3... then what do you do? Just sit there and wait for them to crawl out of their spawn? They won't. They lost so hard that the only way they think they can fight is by using the support of the dropships. But that's not enough. We have no option but to roll right under their dropships and kill them there, and even with dropship-jesus raining however many LPLs on our heads, we still can't lose momentum.


*except for that one time that I dropped a single match with a large Kurita unit.


At least Domination ends in like 90 seconds flat when you cap the center if it's a roflstomp of a match. It doesn't drag on. Similar with Assault. Same with Invasion, because you can destroy the gun and gg end it. And at least Conquest splits the team up to maintain cap control, and even in a complete stomp it's at least interesting enough to hold your attention. Skirmish is the only mode that's a bad egg, here.

[Deathlike]

BLOOD WOLF, on 29 January 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

Then stop camping near the base then when you get crushed the enemy is only a grid or two away.

How are these problems created by a complete lack of player awareness a bold assertion to remove the entire game mode?

Dude, there is no other objective than BUT kill everyone. That is literally the mode in a nutshell.

It's already been said that most gamemodes are deathmatch... but having deathmatch being the core behavior for respawns literally means spawn camping is the #1 option... the objective is literally that.

With other gamemodes with spawns, there is an objective to complete even if you decide to spawn camp. When the objective is to kill everyone... well, what is the opponent to do? Do nothing? Get real.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 January 2017 - 12:00 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

yea, getting rolled and farmed can happen in every game mode. Stop wasting time proposing nonsense.

#skirmish is a problem.................no really.

just make the other game modes that are objective based more focused on the objectives and leave skirmish alone.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 29 January 2017 - 12:17 PM.

[LordNothing]

Sixpack, on 29 January 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Spawn camping issue:

1. Remove Skirmish (<- this is important)
2. Unify spawn area (<- no long trecks to group up)
3. Make sure nobody can snipe in to those spawnpoints (<- giant walls if lazy, otherwise move spawnpoints, but we realy need new maps)
4. Add 2+ patrolling leopard dropships to the spawnzone (<- anybody that wants to spawncamp needs to push in to these AND the dropship making its delivery)
5. Add a breaker so that the dropships coming in do not collide with the patrolling ones if need be.


Should be easy enough and has all the necessary assets already there.

attacking force needs a fire base. use those prefab walls and some turrets.

i think all drop zones need to be turreted out with ac20s, no fewer than 4 dual turrets. they need to be either immortal or very hard to kill. they also need to be placed so they will shoot any mech that tries to enter the choke points, but not be able to fire outside the drop zone or protect objectives.

now given a sufficiently starchy force, you have to stop the attacking side from playing a defensive game. giving them a fire base, which really should only serve the purpose of being able to organize a push, also gives potatoes an excuse not to do anything. so you need to have those turrets shoot them for cowardice, anyone in the base for more than 5 minutes after spawning.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 January 2017 - 12:34 PM.

[James Argent]

In general, though I greatly prefer when I win, losing is just something that I don't mind putting up with if it doesn't devolve into 48 mechs' worth of bullying. But when a dominating team can easily get the win but decides instead to waste my time dragging it out for kills, that pisses me off.

Could there be some kind of way to penalize the stomping team for going off mission in order to farm kills? For example, if your entire team obviously abandons the Domination circle or ignores the enemy base in Assault to spawncamp, you run the risk of losing the match for not focusing on the objective. Maybe have it kick in after a certain kill differential (like an entire wave), so if you're 12 up on the kill count the game switches into 'the lightning round' and you should definitely be able to keep someone in the circle or on their base. If not, the timer starts dropping/your base starts capping for the spawncamped team because you abandoned the objective. If the other team can close the kill gap below 12, the lightning round is temporarily rescinded.

Conquest on FP is already usually decided on resources rather than kills, so it seems to be OK without the lightning round. This obviously can't help with Skirmish, but it would help to keep Domination and Assault from being Skirmish with no discernable difference.

[C E Dwyer]

They Seriously don't remember telling us we could join elite N.P.C unit's if we'd made top rank in all the factions

No wonder this games in such a mess

[Terrorsdawn]

In MY opinion what I heard through out the Round Table was, that Mercs have had the best of this game since the Merc path was brought in to the game.

Mercs can - run any type of tech they want by bouncing between factions.
- got to farm IS factions rewards before the Merc path was brought into the game and were rewarded with a whole new path to farm after the Merc path was introduced.
- Mercs have been allowed to create horrible balance in Faction Play by stacking in what ever faction they want and will be allowed to continue to do so but at a slower rate with individual contract restraints coming.

Loyalist can - can just be happy they have a game right now that lets them put faction decals on their mechs but Mercs can use those same decals if they want because we (PGI) can not rethink the game in anyway shape or form and risk upsetting Mercs. Unless we first see if the Mercs are going to be upset with any changes we make and receive the Mercs blessings.

I want to be positive but there is little reason to be positive about where things are at and whats coming in the near future. You will always have a larger Merc population as things stand and if changes to the game are not made to give advantages to loyalists the Merc population will continue to grow as the loyalists go Merc or leave the game. Thank you for the ideas presented by the panelists regarding this imbalance but Russ pretty much slammed the door on everything that might shift things away from being Merc.

I feel strongly about having a Merc ticket system.
1. Wipe all contracts.
2. Each faction gets one Merc contract that can be taken by a Merc unit.
3. No new slots open till each faction has had their Merc Contract filled.
4. Once every faction has a Merc unit working for them a 2nd round of contracts can be offered up and so on.
5. No merc unit can accept more then a set amount of contracts with a faction in a row to allow other Merc units the chance to work for that said faction.
6. Merc terms can be affected by contract performance. If the unit performs bad no option to renew a contract for that faction till the Merc unit has worked for at least one other faction. Merc unit performs well they get to renew contract till set amount of contracts is reached.

I found it strange that after demonstrating the cool elevators in the 1v1 map that everyone seems fixated on drop ships as the only spawn option. Pgi clearly showed that the quick play maps can have walls added to them to make the maps more Faction Play friendly. Can this same elevator asset be added to the maps? There would be no flight path problems, spawn timers could be adjusted as needed. Turrets could be added to the elevator hangers. Spawn selection could be added. Even if this only given to one side, there have been so many other good ideas presented in the past to make drop ship spawns more varied and less camper friendly.

I'll stop there because this is turning into a wall.

A big thank you to all that participated in the round table. I may not agree with everything presented or have a lot a faith in what it has been achieved in the end but your hard work gives a small measure of hope and a lot of respect for your efforts.

[Sixpack]

LordNothing, on 29 January 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

attacking force needs a fire base. use those prefab walls and some turrets.

i think all drop zones need to be turreted out with ac20s, no fewer than 4 dual turrets. they need to be either immortal or very hard to kill. they also need to be placed so they will shoot any mech that tries to enter the choke points, but not be able to fire outside the drop zone or protect objectives.

now given a sufficiently starchy force, you have to stop the attacking side from playing a defensive game. giving them a fire base, which really should only serve the purpose of being able to organize a push, also gives potatoes an excuse not to do anything. so you need to have those turrets shoot them for cowardice, anyone in the base for more than 5 minutes after spawning.

You could still abuse that by quickly leaving and reentering the base.
Furthermore AC20 turrets have short range and there is no guarantee of blind spots. (so instead LL or PPC turrets would be needed)

When the order came in to move in to the enemy spawn we usually went to the walls first to cover against the dropships.

If you have some dropships patrolling the area there are basically no safe spots (or at least not for long) unless they are further away.

The main issue with skirmish is that there is 0 incentive for a team to leave their spawn area if they feel inclined to do so and with what is currently available this is not going to change.
We need reasons both for one team to not go after another teams spawn area as well as to not stay in their spawn area. Skirmish is just not viable in Invasion due to not having those incentives.

The only thing I could think of would be adding NPC lances that can be used to rake up kills and force out the other team, but then you might be trading kills for dmg taken and get rolled by the enemy team once both crash in to each other. There is no real good answer here. Thus removing skirmish is the easiest solution.

it is a fun and nice mode for quickplay, but it should stay there.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Cathy, on 29 January 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

They Seriously don't remember telling us we could join elite N.P.C unit's if we'd made top rank in all the factions

No wonder this games in such a mess

yea, get asked about a statement 4 years ago and be expected to remember it. Given that he has probably not thought about it or even looked at that vid in who knows how long.

#just another typical MWO forumite comment

[mesmer]

Mech the Dane, on 29 January 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

PGI ANNOUNCEMENT: 4.2 is going to release soon, probably April. No more units having two different units in different factions that players can seamlessly leave whenever they want to drop on a different side. Now whenever players leave a unit they are still beholden to that unit's contract at least for 7 days(?). Also new Faction V Faction sub-wars will start up. First one will be Liao versus Davion. We could potentially be running these mini-events 24/7 but probably wont.. also they are only going to be for loyalists and have special rewards.
PGI: SO NOW THAT YOU CAN'T JUMP FACTIONS REAL FAST HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES PANELISTS?!
Panelists: It's cool.
PGI: Srsly? I thought you were gonna be all angry.
Panelists: No one likes EVIL, they're a bunch of cowards.
Community: Yeah.

Loyalist types (or mercs who only play one side mostly) don't get it:

Mercs moving from side to side is good for the game. If wait times are bad as one side, we move to the other. Not just EVIL does it. Most elite units do by now.

Edited by mesmer7, 29 January 2017 - 02:58 PM.

[FallingAce]

mesmer7, on 29 January 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

Loyalist types (or mercs who only play one side mostly) don't get it:

You don't get it. Mercs are the ones that create the imbalance.



30% Clan 29 % I.S.
Looks pretty balanced to me.
Guess where the imbalance comes from?
The other 40%

[Deathlike]

FallingAce, on 29 January 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

You don't get it. Mercs are the ones that create the imbalance.



30% Clan 29 % I.S.
Looks pretty balanced to me.
Guess where the imbalance comes from?
The other 40%

However, that's not how the game calculates "population" unfortunately.

[LordLeto]

Cathy, on 29 January 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

They Seriously don't remember telling us we could join elite N.P.C unit's if we'd made top rank in all the factions

No wonder this games in such a mess

Many of our attentions and patience with this game has waxed and waned thru the years. Can anyone provide a link to them saying this? This is a concept that completely passed me by during one of my breaks from MWO. Not that it surprises me they forgot.

Edited by LordLeto, 29 January 2017 - 04:55 PM.

[McHoshi]

Terrorsdawn, on 29 January 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

In MY opinion what I heard through out the Round Table was, that Mercs have had the best of this game since the Merc path was brought in to the game.

Mercs can - run any type of tech they want by bouncing between factions.
- got to farm IS factions rewards before the Merc path was brought into the game and were rewarded with a whole new path to farm after the Merc path was introduced.
- Mercs have been allowed to create horrible balance in Faction Play by stacking in what ever faction they want and will be allowed to continue to do so but at a slower rate with individual contract restraints coming.

Loyalist can - can just be happy they have a game right now that lets them put faction decals on their mechs but Mercs can use those same decals if they want because we (PGI) can not rethink the game in anyway shape or form and risk upsetting Mercs. Unless we first see if the Mercs are going to be upset with any changes we make and receive the Mercs blessings.

I want to be positive but there is little reason to be positive about where things are at and whats coming in the near future. You will always have a larger Merc population as things stand and if changes to the game are not made to give advantages to loyalists the Merc population will continue to grow as the loyalists go Merc or leave the game. Thank you for the ideas presented by the panelists regarding this imbalance but Russ pretty much slammed the door on everything that might shift things away from being Merc.

I feel strongly about having a Merc ticket system.
1. Wipe all contracts.
2. Each faction gets one Merc contract that can be taken by a Merc unit.
3. No new slots open till each faction has had their Merc Contract filled.
4. Once every faction has a Merc unit working for them a 2nd round of contracts can be offered up and so on.
5. No merc unit can accept more then a set amount of contracts with a faction in a row to allow other Merc units the chance to work for that said faction.
6. Merc terms can be affected by contract performance. If the unit performs bad no option to renew a contract for that faction till the Merc unit has worked for at least one other faction. Merc unit performs well they get to renew contract till set amount of contracts is reached.

I found it strange that after demonstrating the cool elevators in the 1v1 map that everyone seems fixated on drop ships as the only spawn option. Pgi clearly showed that the quick play maps can have walls added to them to make the maps more Faction Play friendly. Can this same elevator asset be added to the maps? There would be no flight path problems, spawn timers could be adjusted as needed. Turrets could be added to the elevator hangers. Spawn selection could be added. Even if this only given to one side, there have been so many other good ideas presented in the past to make drop ship spawns more varied and less camper friendly.

I'll stop there because this is turning into a wall.

A big thank you to all that participated in the round table. I may not agree with everything presented or have a lot a faith in what it has been achieved in the end but your hard work gives a small measure of hope and a lot of respect for your efforts.

What is this website called? mwoMERCS.com <--- Get over it and stop your whining.

Edited by McHoshi, 29 January 2017 - 05:13 PM.

[Deathlike]

Terrorsdawn, on 29 January 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

I found it strange that after demonstrating the cool elevators in the 1v1 map that everyone seems fixated on drop ships as the only spawn option. Pgi clearly showed that the quick play maps can have walls added to them to make the maps more Faction Play friendly. Can this same elevator asset be added to the maps? There would be no flight path problems, spawn timers could be adjusted as needed. Turrets could be added to the elevator hangers. Spawn selection could be added. Even if this only given to one side, there have been so many other good ideas presented in the past to make drop ship spawns more varied and less camper friendly.

The thing about arty and airstrikes is that if there's no overhead cover (such as the dropships), the projectiles would land perfectly on stationary objects like mechs spawning/powering up from an underground spots.

[mesmer]

Deathlike, on 29 January 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

However, that's not how the game calculates "population" unfortunately.

FallingAce, on 29 January 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

You don't get it. Mercs are the ones that create the imbalance.



30% Clan 29 % I.S.
Looks pretty balanced to me.
Guess where the imbalance comes from?
The other 40%

Imbalance of what? The fact IS pugs bring garbage mechs and get destroyed?

Not the elite mercs fault at all.

Without mercs switching fluidly, match waits would be higher. QED.

[Sjorpha]

BLOOD WOLF, on 29 January 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

yea, getting rolled and farmed can happen in every game mode. Stop wasting time proposing nonsense.

#skirmish is a problem.................no really.

just make the other game modes that are objective based more focused on the objectives and leave skirmish alone.

It's boring to farm pugs. It doesn't matter one bit if the farming is done via spawncamping or somewhere else, it's still playing a match you already know you've won for no reason.

The other game modes allow you to end the match quickly instead of farming, but in skirmish you HAVE to farm the pugs. So boring.

That is why skirmish sucks. And the stronger your team is the more it sucks, because the more you'll be forced to farm.

All game modes should be objective based and winning as quick as possible should be rewarded, with no MM at least let the pugstomps be over quick so players on both sides you can move on to real matches that are fun for them.

Conquest is by far the best mode in FP, Invasion, Assault and Domination are...ok...but skirmish is just complete garbage.

Edited by Sjorpha, 29 January 2017 - 06:03 PM.

[Jarl Dane]

Sjorpha, on 29 January 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

but skirmish is just complete garbage.

Yep. Especially when you're stuck in it. After 3-5 20-25 minute games where all I am doing is spawn-camping and chasing down a few fugitive survivors.. i don't want to play CW anymore.

[James Argent]

But it's my experience that most of the time nobody on a farming team ever takes advantage of the other modes' ability to end the match quickly. They make every player on the other team drop all four mechs every time, the last ones not even making it to the ground from the dropship before being destroyed. It's not as if they really fear my Mist Lynx and seeing it emerge from the dropship causes them to panic at the thought of letting it take a single step. They could just walk away with our lunch money minutes earlier (and get more C-Bills by doing shorter, more frequent drops), but they always decide to stay and push our faces in the mud for the full pain of 48 mechs because 'LOLZ, GIT GUD NUBS.'

Skirmish is Skirmish. If it's going to remain a mode in FP, then 48 mechs on one side will have to be destroyed. The biggest problem isn't how Skirmish works, it's that Assault and Domination are allowed to be played exactly like Skirmish. That's why I suggested the 'lightning round' above. Take the win by completing the main objective, or lose by ignoring it.

[naterist]

Cathy, on 29 January 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

They Seriously don't remember telling us we could join elite N.P.C unit's if we'd made top rank in all the factions

No wonder this games in such a mess

i think they were drunk when they both thought it up, and delivered it. same drunk too, like two kegs in, "boys, the presentations starting in 30 minutes, is you slideshow ready?" kind of thing.