14 replies to this topic

[4lex]

I usualy play a LCT-PB, and bought 3 vipers, including medusa, master unlocked on medusa, and dude.... do i suck at vipers or what! They just seems to slow for small lazorz and if pack anything else i heat up bad and get owned by lights. My arm get blown off as soon as a red see me. The crazy thing is that i do ok to good in CDA but cant handle vipers at all.

Any one doing ok with em as any pointer for a disgruntled pilot.

thanks

[Shadey99]

I picked them as my current medium to level now that I'm done with Bushwhackers. Have you played the Artic Cheetah? They run the same speed as the Vipers. In fact I play mine like a Cheetah, dashing in from the side or rear and then fading away. You also want the high ground, you have all those JJs so use them. Fight from the top of builds, canyon walls, or other obstacles. Drop down to avoid missiles and then pop back up again. Also you want to avoid giving the enemy your side when possible, those arms will fall right off (It's also why I try to keep as much firepower in the torsos as possible).

That said I do run three builds (well 2 really). One is a 9 ERSL build (Or 7) and the other is a 4 ERML build (using the high shoulder mounts). If I had a 2nd C I'd do a 5 SPL+4 MG build. The ERML build can stay much farther back and just peek over hills to strike, though will get owned against most lights with more close firepower. The 9 ERSL rivals the 10 ERSL fists from of doom on the Nova.

[50 50]

It's an agile little mech but you will find it does not compete with the Locust on outright speed.
It could be compared to the Cicada and many people do, however the Spider is probably a better comparison.

As a fast mobile striker, it is very good and getting in and out of places.
However, as a Clan mech it will feel like it is made of egg shell and like all Clan mechs, you can fry eggs in the cockpit because it runs so hot so careful heat management is needed in a sustained fire fight. Having backup weapons like the MGs will help here and it's frontal profile is quite skinny.

It does lack the defensive benefits of the armour and structure bonuses you get on the IS mechs... I'm not sure it has any actually... and without an ECM you do have to be wary of getting caught in the open.

The mech also has very limited tonnage for equipment so larger caliber weapons are not overly practical.

Build wise, seeing as you have the Medusa, try going with the 3 SRM hard points and a couple of medium lasers for a little bit of poking. Pretty sure you can get 2x SRM4s and 1 SRM6, but mix and match as you see fit or to get more ammo. Avoid Artemis though, it simply doesn't have enough free tonnage.

I've had some fun using the VPR-A with a TAG and NARC in the arms and 4 ER Mediums in the torso.
Also consider mixing the pods for a 9 ER Small Laser build (and be prepared for the heat).

[Raging Owlbear]

VIPERS SUCK.

So I set up my Cicada and Vipers with a similar load out to test.

Cicada - 320XL, 4xML, 2xMPL, 4/(10) Double Heat Sinks
Viper A - 320XL, 5xML, 4/(10) Double Heat Sinks

On Forest Coloty, the Cicada got 33% heat on the first alpha, but was able to alpha 4 times before a shutdown. The Viper OTOH, alphas only 3 times in a row (43% on first) and shuts down during the 3rd strike.

WTF?!? That is $#!t. Both mechs are supposed to have a -5% laser heat quirk, and yet the IS mech generated way less heat with more freakin' lasers.

So then I dropped the Cicada down to 5xML to see what the real difference was. The Cicada only shut down on the 6th straight alpha, and it only shut down for about 2 seconds with no internal damage.

I know this isn't that new. PGI totally craps up the Clan laser heat gen, but THAT MUCH?!? And given that the center torso nose just sucks in damage like a black hole, the mech's front armor is like tissue paper.

The VIPER just plain sssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccckkkkkks!

[Shadey99]

Lt Waldo, on 14 February 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

Cicada - 320XL, 4xML, 2xMPL, 4/(10) Double Heat Sinks
Viper A - 320XL, 5xML, 4/(10) Double Heat Sinks

You aren't comparing apples to apples here, clan lasers have more range, damage, and generate more heat than IS ones. Clan ERSLs match IS MLs in all ways except range. If you had 5 ERSL you'd generate the same sort of heat as the Cicada (well slightly less since 2 are MPLs). It is astoundingly hard to compare IS to clan even within a similar performance profile.

They can put out damage and get kills just fine if you know how to use them. Here is a game from the 5th before I had finished eliting the mech to prove my point:


Not my best game, but the first I found to illustrate my point. That said I actually like the Ice Ferret as well and was often brutally effective with it. Compared to most IS mechs however you cannot play the 'sit and poke from half a map away' game very well with a Viper.

Edited by Shadey99, 15 February 2017 - 07:36 AM.

[Raging Owlbear]

Shadey99, on 15 February 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

Compared to most IS mechs however you cannot play the 'sit and poke from half a map away' game very well with a Viper.

And I don't. I've been playing lights and mediums since the beginning and Viper is the worst by far, regardless of IS or Clan. Nova used to be consider the "meh" medium on the Clan side, but it has a niche, especially since they altered the profile and tweaked it a bit. I honestly can't see a role for the Viper that one of the other mediums or lights does not fulfill better.

As a scout, you're better of with ACH or SHC. As a jump and poke or laser boat, Nova. As a speedy brawler, Stormcrow. The thing is a dog. It has a little bit of speed, but other mediums seem to take more punishment (and/or have more tonnage for heatsinks) and lights just run circles.

Edited by Lt Waldo, 17 February 2017 - 09:18 AM.

[Mad Ox]

Without structure Quirks the viper is definitely weaker then comparative mech. Leaves it at immediate disadvantage for brawling one on one, not even mentioning worse odds. Also most weapons on arms making it that much easier to hurt.

After just finisihing Cicada's off I picked up vipers and really such a different game play but still they have clan tech so thats considerable firepower they bring don't ignore them

Its a scout, harasser, but find it really shines as support for light/fast medium lance or covering Big Boys backs. Really though anything where its not the direct target really LOL. Want a different mech well go play a different mech viper does its own thing its a bit weaker due to quirks but in time those will get added to level it out.

[Shadey99]

I've taken out a lot of Cheetahs with my 7-9 ERSL Vipers. It's very much an ambush predator though. Perfect to offer extra firepower paired to other clan speedsters (Shadow Cat & Cheetah). I believe the Kintaro and Phoenix Hawk are the only medium or light mechs I have yet to master or am not currently working on (I was away for six months and never really liked the Kintaro). I have mastered my Vipers quicker than my Bushwhackers and in fact mastered them before I finished the bushwhackers even though I started the Vipers half way through my Bushwhackers.

Lets compare: One one one I can take down Cheetahs or Shadowcats in a Viper as long as I can close (And I usually can because we go the same speeds). Though they have ECM options so you have to play smarter to avoid being detected. The Ice Ferret fills a similar role, but doesn't have the ability to go 'up' like the Viper does. I'm actually glad I have never faced a Feret in my Viper as both would likely be a mess afterwards. It's much faster and more agile than a crow in every way, but the Crow is tankier by far and can carry more/bigger guns. The Nova and Huntsman both have a bit of an edge in firepower, but are slower, less agile, and can't jump as high. For the Crow, Nova, and Huntsman you want to catch them from behind. Which also applies to all heavies or assaults. Your usually fast enough to strike, get away, and then come back from a new position.

Also like the IS Crab or Bushwhacker you don't want to offer your side as much. Unlike those you can live without a side torso, but it hurts. However, like those mechs your best and most narrow profile is from the front.

I mean I'm high tier and I get games like this:


1 completely solo kills, 4 most damage dealt. I couldn't have won the match by myself, but I certainly had no problems leaving the enemy a bloody mess with my 'weak' mech.

Edited by Shadey99, 17 February 2017 - 12:33 PM.

[Raging Owlbear]

I wouldn't say I'm a supreme pilot, but I can often get 500+ in lights and mediums. The Viper is proving a challenge in that regard. I've done more than 500, but only once in a while and it was on games where I was being ignored in favor of "juicier" targets. It could be that I've grown too soft with ECM almost always available on what I tend to drive, but I do well in 'crows and middle-well in Novas too, so I think I'm just not jiving with the play style of the Viper. It may be that I'm overly aggressive having been so used to ECM cover.

[Bassie]

I too find the viper tough to use. It's fun as a ppc pop-tart using the b-variant, but you are limited to the one ppc so while it's fun, a good game will net you 350 dmg only.

I h ave Ben told that 4-5 erml is a solid build. But I run that on a kitfox with ecm and it does a lot better.

Also the mg builds can work, but unless you really want to play clan, the huggin does it better - seems faster, tankier and to chew through components faster.

I hav no doubt that the expert pilots rock in the viper. But I'd be genuinely interested if anyone can find something the viper does that another mech doesn't do better.

[Yumoshiri]

The viper is quite fun to play. Mine is the standard variant C, not modified, with 4 ML and 4 machine guns. Most of the time I hope to play it like a cicada: skirmisher, and force my enemies to look in a different direction than my team. Don't play it like a cheetah, it's much easier to hit as the hitboxes are worse and there is no ECM to cover you - and it lacks the speed of a jenner iic to make it work.

The risk of playing it like a cicada is that as you intend to flank, a light might spot and chase you, or you find a bunch of enemies awaiting your arrival. Save the machine guns for when your team is pushing hard and components are exposed. Through the game, just make use of the medium range on your ML's, with jump shots or sneaky shots. If an enemy turns around, you did a good job - and if they don't, you have got a kill. Watch the mean guys with ac20's or gausppc, as they can turn your life in a misery real quick (losing half your firepower, or a leg ruins your game)

note, it's not about damage in this mech, but about doing a good job for the team. Distract, and wreck components, depending on the situation.

[The Basilisk]

Most people here seem to concentrate on the traits the viper does not have to compare it to other mechs either in its weight class or in its speed bracket.

What the Viper has is a very low profile combined with excellent maneuverability and godly jump capabillitys.

Both medium ranged LPL+ERMlaser (if you want to sacrifice range for alpha), 6ERMLaser(42 alpha at 400m on a medium mech Ololololol), 8SPL(48 alpha at short burn) builds or ERPPC sniper builds are possible.
All this on a mech going 140kph fast and jumping higher than any other mech.

Its strengths are its speed, its high torso hardpoints, its clan weapon made generous range bracket (more failsave) and its vertical mobility.

A Cicada has no clan weapons and its only jumpcapable variant has only 4 hardpoints.
A Phoenix hawk has the jump capability but is much more vulnerable and can either get the speed or the jump capability and has further low hardpoints.
Lighter mechs with the same speed don't have that kind of firepower.

Edited by The Basilisk, 07 March 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[stalima]

The viper is more of a hit-and-run mech, is not really designed to stay in combat and hammer enemies over and over.

It generally excels when you run up, unload a big alpha then quickly rush off to cool down, it even has an excessive amount of jump jets to emphasis upon this trait.

If you were looking for a bigger more armoured arctic cheetah, then sadly this mech is just not the same since it rarely wants to circle enemies for more than a few seconds.

[godmonkey]

I love muh vipers. They are really nasty ambush/striker mechs and i exclusively run short range brawler builds on them. Always attack enemies from angles where they can't see you from properly, use the jumpjets so that they can't see you when they turn around and keep moving! Play it like a light with god tier manouverability due to the JJ's and find the stragglers in the enemy team. On city maps wait till the brawl starts and swoop in from high in the rear arc and you can do no wrong.

i run either 6 SPL and 4 MG's TC1 on the medusa

5 SPL 4 MG on the C

And SRM's on the D

most fun i have had in MWO in ages but they suite my play style very well as you can play super agressive mobile gameplay

[Vadafallon]

I love the Viper, but she is a fickle beast.. Super mobile and you can put some fun builds on her. However if you get caught with your pants down you are going to have a bad night. You have to play this lady like a locust, the viper is pretty thin on armor.