262 replies to this topic

[CK16]

Lack of Sunder and Templar. Both have some good potential and have good hero options!

[Gas Guzzler]

CK16, on 02 February 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

Lack of Sunder and Templar. Both have some good potential and have good hero options!

They will not power creep the IS to Clan levels, not even close, so they aren't of interest to this thread.

Seriously, do people not get that this thread is not "Oh yeah these mechs might be pretty good"? The Sunder would have Heavy level firepower. The Templar is not the assault we need.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 02 February 2017 - 03:28 PM.

[Bombast]

CK16, on 02 February 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

Lack of Sunder and Templar. Both have some good potential and have good hero options!

The thread is for 'game breakers,' neither of which the Sunder or Templar are. The Templar has someglaring space issues, and the Sunder has a hardpoint shortage, along with hard point placement issues and poor hitbox (The Templar has those as well).

We really do need the Sunder, but not for the reasons that this thread is considering.

Edited by Bombast, 02 February 2017 - 03:29 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bombast, on 02 February 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

The thread is for 'game breakers,' neither of which the Sunder or Templar are. The Templar has someglaring space issues, and the Sunder has a hardpoint shortage, along with hard point placement issues and poor hitbox (The Templar has those as well).

We really do need the Sunder, but not for the reasons that this thread is considering.

It has some decent height arms and an Energy hardpoint in each shoulder at cockpit level. Its just the shortage that hurts it, and it only has ~35 tons of weapons to work with.

[Gas Guzzler]

If you voted for the Flashman, could you explain why? In the context of a new top tier heavy mech for the IS, would be on point.

[MischiefSC]

"Are those PPCs on your torso mounts or is it just cold in here" or better hardpoint location only.

[LT. HARDCASE]

I like this OP. It's like the Revenge of the Chicken Walkers

I was initially sour on the majority of these mechs, in comparison to some of the nightmares pumped out by the Clans between 3050 and the late 3060s, but some of these do look pretty strong, plus the volumetric scaling would be very kind.

[Navy Sixes]

I really like the Raijin. Those "arms" are super high and the energy/missile hardpoints make it look good for PPC-poking as well as light-hunting with streaks. 97.2 kph, JJs, and an ECM variant. I love the art on it at Sarna, too!

Getting this one in may become my personal crusade...

[TheArisen]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 February 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

If you voted for the Flashman, could you explain why? In the context of a new top tier heavy mech for the IS, would be on point.

I didn't didn't vote for it but my guess is people see it as a better Black Knight, faster, better mounts, etc. I'd agree it is that but I variety is always nice.

[TheArisen]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 February 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

Can't say I am a fan of the Flashman winning the Heavy vote so far. Of all the things the IS need, a good laser boat Heavy is not high on the list of priorities because there are several already. Methinks this is another case of nostalgis striking again, and that the list should've been pruned more than it was. Why wasn't it limited to five as discussed? Jinggau and Thunder were shot down in the PMs, I thought.

Kinda the same for assaults. I like the Night Star and Fafnir, but the Sagittaire is objectively better than either.

Like I said to Gas, the Fman would be a better BK but it certainly doesn't bring variety. (I voted for the Dragon Fire).

I was pretty out of it when I was finishing up the OP. Looking back I may have misinterpreted things.

I think the assaults are all pretty close in potential so I don't think it merits concern. I would say the Sagittarius loses to the Nightstar for mobility because the NSR has a 400 capable variant compared to the Sagittarius' 2t hoverjets, which the Nightstar also has a variant for along with it potentially be an excellent ballistic boat. Also the Fafnir does have artwork with shield arms or slim torso and if good inflation could be an epic ballistic boat.

On the bright side the Lynx is running away with the medium bracket.

Edited by TheArisen, 03 February 2017 - 02:10 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

The Flashman is already well known and has been asked several times in the past.

I guess that's the main reason why it has the lead, not necessarily because its hypothetical meta-ness level.

[Karl Streiger]

Hit the Deck, on 03 February 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

The Flashman is already well known and has been asked several times in the past.

I guess that's the main reason why it has the lead, not necessarily because its hypothetical meta-ness level.

The main reason might the maximum speed - thanks to 3 engine crits it is highly questionable that a fast IS heavy might be able to have decent ballistic weapons.
So it need a ton of either missile or ballistic weapons - the flashman can do this.
Sure with a 375 STD you have only the guns of a light mech - but at least you have the armor and maybe the sustained dps to deal some havoc.

with maybe the option for a LFE the capabilitys of the Flashman will even rise, where other "fast" heavys like Falconer need the XL.

The only drawback of the Flashman are the missing jump jets

[Gas Guzzler]

Hit the Deck, on 03 February 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

The Flashman is already well known and has been asked several times in the past.

I guess that's the main reason why it has the lead, not necessarily because its hypothetical meta-ness level.

So nostalgia over function, the bane of the Inner Sphere's lineup. Gotcha.

[TheArisen]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

So nostalgia over function, the bane of the Inner Sphere's lineup. Gotcha.

Well at least in this case it at least would be a strong mech.

[Gas Guzzler]

TheArisen, on 03 February 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

Well at least in this case it at least would be a strong mech.

It would be a strong IS laser boat but it would do nothing to close the gap between IS and Clan. The Falconer at least brings another role to the table, as does the Onslaught, especially when you consider the impending LAC5s..

[FLG 01]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 February 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

It would be a strong IS laser boat but it would do nothing to close the gap between IS and Clan. The Falconer at least brings another role to the table, as does the Onslaught, especially when you consider the impending LAC5s..

I fully agree; the Flashman would be like a Black Knight with better hardpoint locations, I guess, but that's it.

So I wonder: why put it on the list in the first place, if this list was intended to push the envelope?

Another question, as I am curious: what's your opinion on the Defiance?
http://www.sarna.net...ce_(BattleMech)


PS: the Toyama and Cerberus links in the OP are broken again.

Edited by FLG 01, 03 February 2017 - 03:02 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FLG 01, on 03 February 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

Another question, as I am curious: what's your opinion on the Defiance?
http://www.sarna.net...ce_(BattleMech)

Pretty sure the Defiance is practically a humanoid Marauder. Ballistics in the torso is an automatic minus.

[FLG 01]

Well, it has PPC in the arms (it's only arm mounted weapons) and a ballistic HP in the ST, but other than that I don't see much Marauder in it. More Warhammer with asymmetric hardpoint distribution, some CT HP, and a more bulbous geometry. Not sure if that would be any better than the WHM though.
And I wonder if the variant with compact gyro and two SRM6 in the CT is possible...

Edited by FLG 01, 03 February 2017 - 03:39 PM.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 03 February 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

Well, it has PPC in the arms (it's only arm mounted weapons) and a ballistic HP in the ST, but other than that I don't see much Marauder in it. More Warhammer with asymmetric hardpoint distribution, some CT HP, and a more bulbous geometry. Not sure if that would be any better than the WHM though.
And I wonder if the variant with compact gyro and two SRM6 in the CT is possible...

Well it's arms are pretty low so that's not very favorable. Torso ballistic essentially excludes gauss+xl. It could be alright but it wouldn't be T1.

I think the Flashman would push the envelope... Just not very far. It is a 100% upgrade over the BK but honestly I'd rather the Falconer or Dragon Fire by a mile, even the Toyama.

[TheArisen]

Current happenings in the poll.

Out of 42 votes thus far...
Lights: Osiris winning by a mile with 23
Mediums: Lynx just holding onto it's lead with 14
Heavies: Flashman continues to hold off the Falconer with 10
Assaults: The Fafnir & Sagittarius are tied at 12 with the Nightstar trailing in 3rd