61 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 31 January 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

How exactly is PGI going to differentiate Streak LRMs from normal LRMs? What benefit will they provide for their extra weight? The TT version of Streak targeting is kind of hard to translate to a game where you don't make a dice roll to target your weapon (Streaks in TT simply don't fire if your targeting roll fails).

It's almost like there was a Mechwarrior game that dealt with this before and dealt with it appropriately.....oh right, there was, it was MW4. The difference between Artemis, Streaks, and normal launchers was lock time and range.

For reference for those who don't remember or never played:

• Streaks instantly locked on whatever your reticle was on, they also lost lock immediately after your crosshair left the mech (meaning missing was easy if you didn't have a good bead on the mech).
  
• Artemis extended range and lowered lock time by half, was a bit too powerful for the one ton (the lock time was more than enough).
  
• Standard launchers took between 1-2 seconds to lock on (a mod gave SRM/MRMs lock-on capability so they had 1s lock times compared to the 2s lock time of LRMs).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 31 January 2017 - 10:13 AM.

[Bombast]

CK16, on 31 January 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

...or Longtom haha.

Wanna see my Long Toms?

[GrimRiver]

For IS.

I really thing they should make the LB2/5/20X 1 ton lighter and take 1 less crit slot than standard AC's, like LB10X vs AC10.
(LB2X would stay 1 slot, but is 1 ton lighter)

UAC2/10/20 would be 1 ton heavier and take 1 more crit slot than standard AC's, like UAC5 vs AC5.

Due to LB20X size/weight very few mechs will be able to run it, so if the LB's work like LB10X it'll make'em much more viable than just keeping the original weight and size of LB2/5/20X and slapping it with a buff.

[1453 R]

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

...

New IS Tech I can reasonably expect to see this summer:
ER Small Lasers
ER Medium Lasers
UAC 2/10/20
Streak 4/6
LB 2/5/20 x

Thinking this is all pretty much a given. Filling out the existing tech for the Sphere is half of the point of a tech jump.

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

Light AC/2
Light AC/5

One can hope. The light AC/2 is still kinda useless, but light AC/5s would be a hell of a boon for smaller Sphere 'Mechs. I still don't think light ballistics 'Mechs will really be good, ballistics 'Mechs tend to need more than one cannon to make it work properly, but medium 'Mechs might benefit a great deal, and at least light ballistics platforms will get a bone.

'Course, if Piranha wants to be really cool they'd cut the LAC/2 down to three tons instead of four, which would make it much more attractive.

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

Heavy Machine Guns

Essentially already confirmed by Russ, so hey cool. Not sure if they'll be any good, but they'll be here.

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

Light PPC

I'd be super interested to see how light PPCs played out in MWO. Either they end up as junk nobody uses or (more likely, I would think) they revolutionize light and medium 'Mech play. I could honestly see these suckers being even bigger game-changers than light autocannons, since you get the range profile of a standard PPC for less than half the weight. Yeah, it only does five damage, but you can sling two lights and a DHS for the same weight as a single regular PPC, and the light ones would likely have velocity/cycle time advantages.

Just imagine light 'Mechs able to do medium-range PPFLD with light PPCs or possibly LAC/5s instead of having to be zippy ML/SPL boats. Light PPCs could open up an entirely new tactical pattern for lighter 'Mechs and I really, really hope they make it in.

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

MRM's (long shot)
Rotary ACs (long shot)

MRMs are less of a long shot than you seem to be implying, given how ridiculously common they are later. They're also pretty easy to build since they're basically just mad-oversized SRM racks with numbers tweaks. Rotaries would require new models and coding and stuff, yeah, but they're also sort of the longstanding Rock Star of Sphere FutureTech. I don't know if Piranha's going to be able to get away with disincluding such a high-profile weapon system.

Heh, there are other things one could do that might make a difference, though. Snub-nosed PPCs could be implemented as 'brawly' guns with no minimum range, lighter weight, and lower heat/higher cycle time in exchange for that nasty damage dropoff at longer ranges (especially since snub PPCs are also pretty common later on). That's all just .XML edits too, not any harder than light PPCs. Heavy PPCs, similarly - make them straight-up 15-damage guns for being giant ten-ton energy cannons and let the Sphere have their particle bazookas as a counterweight to things like heavy lasers. Still just an XML edit, though it's also a bit bigger so maybe a little more work. HVACs are also just XML edits for existing standard guns, if significantly less useful overall.

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

...
New Clan Tech I can reasonably expect to see this summer:
ER Small Pulse Lasers
ER Medium Pulse Lasers
ER Large Pulse Lasers (just give them the original range of the standard Large Pulse Laser, just with more heat or weight)

I'm less sold on ERP lasers. Piranha has been burned a lot by Clan energy range issues, and even with the Sphere getting the rest of their own ER guns, ERP lasers seem like a paradigm breaker. Especially given that MWO's implementation of ER technology (longer range, longer burn time) and Pulse technology (shorter burn time) are sort of mutually contradictory.

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

ATM 3/6/9/12 (sadly without swap-able munitions)

I'd love ATMs, but I don't know how they're not a code hassle for Piranha unless they do damage-dropoff "all-purpose" ATM ammo, which a lot of folks seem sharply opposed to. Piranha can't do swappable munitions, and when I started a thread to try and discuss it, I was pretty soundly informed that my ideas were bunk and I needed to stop talking ATMs are as important to Clan FutureTech designs as MRMs are for Sphere FutureTech though, so I'm hoping that Piranha feels like it has to solve the ATM issue. I want my 6x ATM-3 Huntsman, Piranha!

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

Streak LRM 5/10/15/20 (let the tears flow if this happens)

You know what's interesting? I'm not sure Piranha can actually do the 'LoS Only' thing everyone keeps claiming for LRM fixes. Every other weapon in the game fires when you pull its trigger. yeah, Streaks require a lock, but if you have that lock they'll fire, even from 1200m behind three cliffs. It's a waste, but they can do it.

That and I don't know why Streak LRMs would be any better for the game than regular LRMs are. I think mebbe we should hope for usability passes on the LRMs we have, not newfangled Streak launchers that outright replace the existing launchers except only for one side.

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

I don't expect to see new armor types in game, and my hopes for a Light Fusion Engine are slowly waning.

I don't know why the LFE would be a problem. It's an .XML fix, and also easy to balance against the other engines - it's heavier than XLs so it doesn't suffer any penalties on ST destruction. The STD is going to need a buff/rework, there's no other way to make an engine that weighs more than the 'Mech it's installed in competitive. Piranha can't say "we're not introducing the LFE because it obsoletes the STD" because a lot of FutureMechs use LFEs, and also that's a crappy way of doing things.

New armor types, I suppose, depends on how well their current system works. It seems easy enough to simply add more options to the Upgrades section of the 'MechLab, but I don't know if they'd need to jump through hoops to get the armor actually doing its job. Taking up appropriate weight/space is easy, they have all the variables they need with Ferro in place, but actually getting the damage resistance could be tricky if they didn't build armor to do that. Would be a crying shame if they didn't do it, though.

Also you forgot heavy lasers. For shame, Agent. For shaaaaaame

[Vanguard319]

I'm expecting serious balance issues.

[Mechteric]

Did you forget about Clan heavy lasers? I love those things in MWLL (especially on the Adder)

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 31 January 2017 - 10:34 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Worst case scenario we mostly get the IS version of what the Clans have. Best case scenario we get the whole kit and caboodle up to 3068. Which Russ teased when he said heavy machine guns would be a thing.

I'm most interested in special munitions for ACs. But they never figured out how to swap ammo. People are saying they'll probably make a variation for each type of ammo like how we have Clan AC placeholder. I think it would just be easier if they simply didn't let you mix ammo types of the same caliber.

The reason I'm most interested in this is because of Caseless ammo. It doubles your shots per ton. You take half as much weight in ammo. Combine this with Light AC 2s and 5s and ballistics are a thing on lighter mechs. With disadvantages of course.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Vanguard319, on 31 January 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'm expecting serious balance issues.

yea, but from what I seen its more of a add this and that, and then yell later about the balance.

[Metus regem]

1453 R, on 31 January 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

Thinking this is all pretty much a given. Filling out the existing tech for the Sphere is half of the point of a tech jump.



I'd be super interested to see how light PPCs played out in MWO. Either they end up as junk nobody uses or (more likely, I would think) they revolutionize light and medium 'Mech play. I could honestly see these suckers being even bigger game-changers than light autocannons, since you get the range profile of a standard PPC for less than half the weight. Yeah, it only does five damage, but you can sling two lights and a DHS for the same weight as a single regular PPC, and the light ones would likely have velocity/cycle time advantages.

Just imagine light 'Mechs able to do medium-range PPFLD with light PPCs or possibly LAC/5s instead of having to be zippy ML/SPL boats. Light PPCs could open up an entirely new tactical pattern for lighter 'Mechs and I really, really hope they make it in.





Heh, there are other things one could do that might make a difference, though. Snub-nosed PPCs could be implemented as 'brawly' guns with no minimum range, lighter weight, and lower heat/higher cycle time in exchange for that nasty damage dropoff at longer ranges (especially since snub PPCs are also pretty common later on). That's all just .XML edits too, not any harder than light PPCs. Heavy PPCs, similarly - make them straight-up 15-damage guns for being giant ten-ton energy cannons and let the Sphere have their particle bazookas as a counterweight to things like heavy lasers. Still just an XML edit, though it's also a bit bigger so maybe a little more work.

Like you, I'd be really interested in the extra PPC family, I think it could really shake things up for Mediums and lights.

[1453 R]

Metus regem, on 31 January 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

Like you, I'd be really interested in the extra PPC family, I think it could really shake things up for Mediums and lights.

Heh, it's also another Different But Equal thing. The Clans invested heavily in laser technology with things like heavy lasers, ERP lasers, Chemical lasers (which actually present a number of interesting ideas for MWO, but that's for another thread), while the Sphere focused less on lasers but instead came up with a manillion different types and flavors of PPC.

It fits the whole "heavy FLD vs. light DoT" paradigm people keep pushing for the Sphere/Clan divide and offers a lot of interesting potential variation between the two. It'd be awesome. Let's do it.

[Bombast]

MechaBattler, on 31 January 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

The reason I'm most interested in this is because of Caseless ammo. It doubles your shots per ton. You take half as much weight in ammo.

That would be a pretty significant buff for autocannons, even if they did give it the lore chance to jam.

1453 R, on 31 January 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

Chemical lasers (which actually present a number of interesting ideas for MWO, but that's for another thread)

Chemical Lasers would be weird. So lets do it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bombast, on 31 January 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Chemical Lasers would be weird. So lets do it.

Chemical lasers would need serious buffing to make them even worth it. BV is the sole reason they were acceptable in TT.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 January 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Chemical lasers would need serious buffing to make them even worth it. BV is the sole reason they were acceptable in TT.

Maybe front load 50-75% of their damage?

Maybe give them some impulse so that they cause some screen shake?

[Bombast]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 January 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Chemical lasers would need serious buffing to make them even worth it. BV is the sole reason they were acceptable in TT.

Well, the most obvious thing would be to make Chemical lasers the lowest heat Clan lasers (Maybe even lower than TT would indicate). So make them highly boatable, but with low (IS) range and damage, and ammo dependency.

Edited by Bombast, 31 January 2017 - 10:53 AM.

[1453 R]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 January 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Chemical lasers would need serious buffing to make them even worth it. BV is the sole reason they were acceptable in TT.

Bombast, on 31 January 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Well, the most obvious thing would be to make Chemical lasers the lowest heat Clan lasers (Maybe even lower than TT would indicate). So make them highly boatable, but with low (IS) range and damage, and ammo dependency.

Pmuch. Cut their heat by a significant amount, closer to "firing an autocannon" heat than "firing a laser" heat. The lasers are lightweight still, and cold, so they have attractive qualities, but they're ammo-dependent and have the (crappy) performance of Sphere standard lasers. They don't get autocannon FLD, but they might still be an interesting idea for some designs, especially light machines that otherwise can't easily deal with novahot Clan energy and don't get any realistic alternatives.

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 January 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Chemical lasers would need serious buffing to make them even worth it. BV is the sole reason they were acceptable in TT.

I think their heat should be lowered to even less than the values of standard lasers, e.g. 5-6 for the large and just 2 for the medium. Small could even be flat out zero heat.

That gives Clammers an option for low-heat energy weapons, at the costs of needing ammo and only having IS laser range/damage.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1453 R, on 31 January 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

They don't get autocannon FLD, but they might still be an interesting idea for some designs, especially light machines that otherwise can't easily deal with novahot Clan energy and don't get any realistic alternatives.

All lights can typically afford the heat, the thing they can't afford is tonnage, and these require too much tonnage to be worth it for most.

Really this is more for heavies and assaults that can afford the tonnage more than anything, which makes me think they should be buffed to be more on par with Clan lasers than remain like IS lasers (especially since heavy lasers will also be incoming and work at similar ranges).

I could potentially see medium brawlers relying more on energy weapons, but even with IS burn times they still most likely wouldn't be great for brawling.

FupDup, on 31 January 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

I think their heat should be lowered to even less than the values of standard lasers, e.g. 5-6 for the large and just 2 for the medium. Small could even be flat out zero heat.

Mediums and Larges are already at that value (MCL = 2 heat, LCL = 6) and they would still need more to be worth taking.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 31 January 2017 - 11:17 AM.

[Bombast]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

All lights can typically afford the heat, the thing they can't afford is tonnage, and these require too much tonnage to be worth it for most.

Really this is more for heavies and assaults that can afford the tonnage more than anything, which makes me think they should be buffed to be more on par with Clan lasers than remain like IS lasers (especially since heavy lasers will also be incoming and work at similar ranges).

I'd make Heavy Lasers the opposite - Extremely high heat weapons with poor boating potential that are useful for mechs with only a handful of energy hard points, but useless in large numbers unless you like exploding.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bombast, on 31 January 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'd make Heavy Lasers the opposite - Extremely high heat weapons with poor boating potential that are useful for mechs with only a handful of energy hard points, but useless in large numbers unless you like exploding.

The point is what range/role they play at because there can only be one that is better in that regard, and mechs that don't have the hardpoints for one will get shafted. Which is why these should not be competing directly with either Heavy Lasers or ER Lasers, they honestly should be a happy medium (that just happens to have an increased initial tonnage investment).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 31 January 2017 - 11:19 AM.

[GrimRiver]

For IS.

Make the ER-small/medium lasers function like LL vs ERLL, give ER's longer duration and higher heat with 30-50m less range than their comparative clan counterparts.

MRM20/30/40 function like SRM's but with more spread and less damage per missile.
(LRM20 model can fire MRM20, MRM30 with 2nd shot as 10 and MRM40 with 20x20 or use custom models to fit MRM20/30/40)

Stream fire idea for MRM20/30/40's would take too long to cycle it's firing(ie: Roman candle)
proof use C-LRM20 and fire vs IS full volley LRM20, the C-LRM20 takes too much face time to cycle it's full volley vs IS LRM20, now imagine that C-LRM20 with 10 or 20 more missiles it has to fire.