37 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Tarogato, on 02 February 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

Of my first 10 or so matches in a KDK-3, most of them were near or above 1000 damage ezpz. And I almost never play assaults (they only comprise 11% of my games, and a further 30% of those are Gargoyle, which plays more like a medium anyways)

Mr. Gargles ate 2 Cicada for breakfast. How dare you call 'em Mediums?

It's Super Jolly Fun Time Medium to you bub!

[Jettrik Ryflix]

Cadoazreal, on 02 February 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

thankyou, theyre supposed to relate to the spock youtube link above that i spoler tag imbedded where hes going on about believeing the bullets aren't real.

I get the reference.

[Zergling]

Problem with making excuses for having bad stats: many people with much better stats have the same 'handicaps', which haven't prevented them from being a better player.

Eg, the 'bad teams' excuse; everyone gets bad teams, nobody is picked on by the matchmaker.

Or the 'I'm leveling mechs!' excuse; everyone levels mechs, many players (even good ones) will move from leveling one mech to the next without spending substantial amounts of time on a single mech.

Or the 'everyone with better stats than me is abusing meta mechs' BS excuse; just puhlease, there's no shortage of good players that can put out great performance while playing terrible builds.


Eg, for a few months I was leveling various mechs in solo QP, typically managing stats around 1.3 W/L with 260-280 average match score.
Those scores are nothing special, but I was told by excuse making potatoes (who struggle to achieve 1.0 W/L and 200 average MS) that I only achieved those stats because I'm not leveling mechs and I'm abusing meta mechs (when I was doing nothing of the sort).

So when December came around, I started using my mastered loyalty Summoners to show the kind of score I could pull off when I am going 'meta tryhard'... and ended up with 2.25 W/L and 450 average MS.

tl;dr potatoes are full of crap.

Edited by Zergling, 03 February 2017 - 12:23 AM.

[RestosIII]

Zergling, on 02 February 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

Problem with making excuses for having bad stats: many people with much better stats have the same 'handicaps', which haven't prevented them from being a better player.

Eg, the 'bad teams' excuse; everyone gets bad teams, nobody is picking on by the matchmaker.

Or the 'I'm leveling mechs!' excuse; everyone levels mechs, many players (even good ones) will move from leveling one mech to the next without spending substantial amounts of time on a single mech.

Or the 'everyone with better stats than me is abusing meta mechs' BS excuse; just puhlease, there's no shortage of good players that can put out great performance while playing terrible builds.

If I didn't pilot almost solely lore builds, all of you would be licking my boots.

BOW DOWN BEFORE ME, PUNY MORTALS!

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Zergling, on 02 February 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

Problem with making excuses for having bad stats: many people with much better stats have the same 'handicaps', which haven't prevented them from being a better player.

Eg, the 'bad teams' excuse; everyone gets bad teams, nobody is picking on by the matchmaker.

Until matchmaker really opens up when population is low...that bites. Had 2 matches in a row where the range of pilots was at least T1 (Panzer on opposite team) to T4 (me)...didn't check yet if there were any T5s...so I took 5 mins to break the cycle and get into a better matchup.

[Roadbuster]

I'm using stats for personal goals.
Like, for example, get positive K/D and W/L on all owned mechs.
This can be quite challenging when piloting "weak" mechs and having to carry for the win.
And once you're done you get a new mech

[Besh]

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

A ranking system doesnt really work in the long run though

The more players of high skill you have on the same team the lower their average match scores will be because they will be positioning better, focusing targets, rotating armor, and doing less damage to kill

Which is also the reason why I do not subscribe to the Idea of using avg. Match Score as a good inidcator of individual skill .

[Zergling]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 02 February 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

Until matchmaker really opens up when population is low...that bites. Had 2 matches in a row where the range of pilots was at least T1 (Panzer on opposite team) to T4 (me)...didn't check yet if there were any T5s...so I took 5 mins to break the cycle and get into a better matchup.

Well after getting 3 losses in a row yesterday (with the last one being a particularly annoying loss due to a team traitor giving my position away when I was trying to pull off a clutch solo win against 4 enemies), I played one battle today and had this hilarity happen:


From what I can tell, the enemy team was filled with Tier 4s and 5s.

Edited by Zergling, 03 February 2017 - 03:04 AM.

[Tarogato]

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

A ranking system doesnt really work in the long run though

The more players of high skill you have on the same team the lower their average match scores will be because they will be positioning better, focusing targets, rotating armor, and doing less damage to kill

Besh, on 03 February 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

Which is also the reason why I do not subscribe to the Idea of using avg. Match Score as a good inidcator of individual skill.

Feel free to cite examples of top-of-the-game players who usually play in group queue employing teamwork and have low average match scores because of it.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Cadoazreal, on 02 February 2017 - 02:50 AM, said:

What title says. unless its a 1v1 ladder

I could farm it day and night with SPLs and flamers in medium mechs. Overheating the opponent and then getting a headshot. Actually why not, good way to get the guillotine achievement... Now what would that prove? Unless flamers are banned from 1v1 it's pointless.

Quote

it means nothing coz people level mechs, play fun builds, get unlucky bad teams, get dc's on team, play only meta mechs and never level a mech while others do, have different quality pc's.

It tells about consistensy. Better players are consistent in destroying the opponent and getting higher match scores. Everyone gets unlucky. Even Proton dies sometimes with sub 100 damage, it happens to all of us. I've seen alot of meta mechs in the solo queue, however the sad fact is that 90% of people running them do not know their strengths, don't have the aim to use them properly and lack in positioning.

Quote

the whole system is flawed and most of it reflects how much you play

Yes it is flawed cus it mixes group queue and solo queue.

[Mystere]

Roadbuster, on 03 February 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

Like, for example, get positive K/D and W/L on all owned mechs.

Ahem! These two ratios can never be less than zero. All it takes is one kill and one win to get positive numbers.

Edited by Mystere, 03 February 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[Jman5]

ugrakarma, on 03 February 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

I could farm it day and night with SPLs and flamers in medium mechs. Overheating the opponent and then getting a headshot. Actually why not, good way to get the guillotine achievement... Now what would that prove? Unless flamers are banned from 1v1 it's pointless.

While I agree that Flamers would be powerful in a 1v1, I think there is still plenty of opportunity for counter-play.

1. Using speed/ranged weapons to prevent you from closing the gap for your flamers and SPL.
2. Using low or no-heat weapons such as Machine Guns and Gauss.
3. Using coolshot and just ending the game quickly before the flamers can get your heat up to 90%.
4. Extending the fight and making the flamer charge up get too heat-expensive for the flame-user.

Quote

It tells about consistensy. Better players are consistent in destroying the opponent and getting higher match scores. Everyone gets unlucky. Even Proton dies sometimes with sub 100 damage, it happens to all of us. I've seen alot of meta mechs in the solo queue, however the sad fact is that 90% of people running them do not know their strengths, don't have the aim to use them properly and lack in positioning.

Agreed.

[Wildstreak]

Stats have been complained about since I first got into this game back in Fall 2012.
For a time I posted reasonable arguments why they are not a big thing but some people just will not stop measuring.
Just cannot make some folks happy even when all the proof is on your side.

[Dimento Graven]

Snazzy Dragon, on 02 February 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

A ranking system doesnt really work in the long run though

The more players of high skill you have on the same team the lower their average match scores will be because they will be positioning better, focusing targets, rotating armor, and doing less damage to kill

While on the surface there might appear to be some logic in this, the reality is quite different. Lower skilled players won't be as accurate, doing less damage, over all, and definitely typically not living long enough to 'spray-n-pray' their way to a higher score. This fact and the fact that the scoring formulas appear to be weighted towards kills and KMDD's will typically reward the higher skilled players more.

Plus, 'skilled' players tend to do more things that earn them more points. Correct usage of UAVs, targeting the enemy they're aiming at. Maintaining a lock on an enemy that has missiles incoming on it, correct usage of strikes, these and other 'good habits' you see good 'Tier 1' players employing every match adds to their scores

It's why with 'skilled' players, even when they're on the losing side, typically they'll have outscored everyone on their team (sometimes outscoring any 4 or more of anyone else on their team) and a LOT of times, even end up with top score of the entire match, even in spite of the loss.

[Scout Derek]

Wildstreak, on 03 February 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

Stats have been complained about since I first got into this game back in Fall 2012.
For a time I posted reasonable arguments why they are not a big thing but some people just will not stop measuring.
Just cannot make some folks happy even when all the proof is on your side.

I guess you could say it is a trait some people inherit when they play many games that have a KDR or a WLR System. Once they see it they want it in every game.

I for one could care less. I'd actually rather see a tier experience system that's based off of how well people play, such as taking the leaderboard stats, and directly applying that to the tier system. Something like that.

[Deathlike]

Tarogato, on 03 February 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

Feel free to cite examples of top-of-the-game players who usually play in group queue employing teamwork and have low average match scores because of it.

It's possible for that to happen... if only when all the players on the same team have relatively "equal" skill. There will be some variance, but the average would be similar.

However, that is not normally the case (disparity in skill often happens) and the variance in match score between players becomes more self-evident... particularly over time. There will be variance between matches no doubt, but consistency between good players is usually greater than the bad ones.


Of course, you're better off watching for said behavior if you don't quite believe it.

[Roadbuster]

Mystere, on 03 February 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

Ahem! These two ratios can never be less than zero. All it takes is one kill and one win to get positive numbers.

Kk, my fault. With positive I mean higher than 1,0, and mastering a mech sure takes more than 1 match
K/D is no problem unless you miss the firepower to finish a target before one of your teammembers can "steal" the kill.
W/L can be frustrating if you drop with "team potato" alot (solo and small group).

[Wildstreak]

Scout Derek, on 03 February 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

I guess you could say it is a trait some people inherit when they play many games that have a KDR or a WLR System. Once they see it they want it in every game.

I for one could care less. I'd actually rather see a tier experience system that's based off of how well people play, such as taking the leaderboard stats, and directly applying that to the tier system. Something like that.

That would also separate regular players from casuals, probably a good thing.
Both could have equal stats but a casual will not rank up as much since he does not play as often.