24 replies to this topic

[Amatsukaze]

The other day I watched a YT vid from a notable personage of the MWO community & in it he was actively targeting components instead of going for kills explaining that he did that to aide the team. Well last night I decided to give that a go & had one of the most fun (and the highest scoring) drops to date.

I was in a light staying behind the enemy shooting arms & legs. At match end I had 11 assists, 9 component destructions & zero kills as well as a plethora of the usual "flank/hit & run" etc. My team also did not take a single loss. What was curious was as I looked at the team score I was number 2 overall & number 2 in damage (697) even though I had zero kills. TBH I could care less about score, I just want to have fun & feel like I had a good drop but I am curious about the score mechanics. Obviously taking away the opposing teams ability to do damage to my team has great benefit but are the points system weighted in that direction?

[Boulangerie]

Well, when you take out a LT or RT, you get credit for damaging the arm as well, so that can really add up on your damage score. The bonuses that you get can really add up for CBills. Kill most damage dealt is a great bonus, but if you can only get one of those before dying, it's far inferior to staying alive and hurting more enemies.

As far as helping your team, every time you can cripple or disarm an enemy, your team is at an advantage, especially depending on the target. Taking out the RT on a Hunchback or the RA of a Centurion almost always makes that mech into walking scrap. Yes, they can still fire with a couple ML or some SRMs depending on the chassis, but learning the strong components of mechs and disarming them can save your team a lot of work, and eliminate firepower from the enemy team quickly. Taking out a leg on a mech will leave it at the mercy of your team, as they won't be able to respond to their team's distress, or participate in an objective as well.

As a light, targeting the legs of engaged enemies is also a great way to sneak in damage, since the legs only register frontal damage, and if they are taking fire already, might not even notice you there if you can stay off the minimap.

[TercieI]

Nothing helps your team win more than killing enemies quickly. Nothing.

[Nerd Incognito]

TercieI, on 03 February 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

Nothing helps your team win more than killing enemies quickly. Nothing.

I don't disagree with you, Terciel, but quick kills are not always possible--particularly for light chassis. For example, I love my Cicada 3M, but it takes a long time for that UAC5 to grind through a Kodiak's armour. Sure, when the perfect circumstances present themselves and you've got an assault all by its lonesome in the back, a quick(er) kill is possible, but when everyone is together, not so much.

Legging helps out immensely, though I often go a different route and try to get their attention. If I can get 3 mechs chasing me, that's 3 less that are firing at my team. Outrun them, maneuver around, and hit a different flank. Rinse and repeat.

You're right, though, in that if you've got the firepower to take off the components, it makes way more sense to be taking out a LT/CT/RT most of the time, to get them out of the game as quick as possible. LT and RT will take out their weapons at the same time, as well, unless they're zombie builds. Dead mechs fire no weapons.

[Koniving]

Boulangerie, on 03 February 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

Well, when you take out a LT or RT, you get credit for damaging the arm as well, so that can really add up on your damage score. The bonuses that you get can really add up for CBills. Kill most damage dealt is a great bonus, but if you can only get one of those before dying, it's far inferior to staying alive and hurting more enemies.

You get credit for destroying the arm, but not for "damaging" the arm or any of the damage associated with it.

Trust me, if you got credit for doing damage to the arm when destroying it via side torso, many of my games with 8+ kills wouldn't only have 300 to 400 damage. Nor would I say that a goal for efficient kills is 100 damage or less per kill for it would be impossible to achieve, especially with targets like the Atlas.

[TercieI]

Nerd Incognito, on 03 February 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

I don't disagree with you, Terciel, but quick kills are not always possible--particularly for light chassis. For example, I love my Cicada 3M, but it takes a long time for that UAC5 to grind through a Kodiak's armour.

I am a light pilot primarily. They're actually some of the best mechs for removing components and assassinating mechs. Frankly, you should never build a light or pseudo-light for DPS based damage. Quick, strong punch and vanish.

[Koniving]

Match score is weighted heavily in many things.

Kills is one factor.
Damage is another.
Hitting more than one enemy is another, in fact the more enemies you participate in "hitting", the better that score will be. This is weighted as "assists"
Kill most damage dealt matters more than kills in terms of match score weight.
"Savior" kills matter more than KMDD. These are the ones where you participated in damaging an enemy that dies just seconds before he kills your teammate. I have once gained 7 of these for a single enemy dying, as you can imagine my match score soared like a rocket.
Targeting enemies first also gives a match score boost.
Maintaining visual LoS to targets during LRM / Streak rain does as well, for your own missiles and for allies.
The list goes on.

[Amatsukaze]

Koniving, on 03 February 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

"Savior" kills matter more than KMDD.

Ahh that might be it then. I know I had several of those on this game. I didn't realize they were that important (I didn't know what it meant) or I would have paid more attention to them.

I appreciate all your knowledge Kon!

[Koniving]

Amatsukaze, on 03 February 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

Ahh that might be it then. I know I had several of those on this game. I didn't realize they were that important (I didn't know what it meant) or I would have paid more attention to them.

I appreciate all your knowledge Kon!

You're welcome. Basically you have to damage the enemy within something like 6 seconds of them being killed while your allies or yourself are both... under attack by it (within the last 6 seconds) and in a condition of critical damage (red lights flashing within cockpit).

[Robinhood78]

Koniving, on 03 February 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

You get credit for destroying the arm, but not for "damaging" the arm or any of the damage associated with it..

No one has disputed you so maybe you are right, but I'm pretty sure you get credit for the damage to the arm too. Perhaps it isn't noteworthy because it may have been heavily damaged or even already removed. Now if you were to say CT kill a mech with little to no damage to the ST and arms, that would be different since a CT kill destroys the mech.

I would love to have a definitive say on this subject if anyone can provide it. Everything I know about this game I got on the internet and if it is on the internet it must be true

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 03 February 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

You get credit for destroying the arm, but not for "damaging" the arm or any of the damage associated with it.

Trust me, if you got credit for doing damage to the arm when destroying it via side torso, many of my games with 8+ kills wouldn't only have 300 to 400 damage. Nor would I say that a goal for efficient kills is 100 damage or less per kill for it would be impossible to achieve, especially with targets like the Atlas.

I've been told that it does add to the damage score you've dealt, and I'd have to say it would explain some of the oddly high damage scores I've achieved and wasn't sure how I managed to do it. (I know Ammo explosions use to count towards this, but no longer do.)

I believe the trick though is that it has to be a non-killing shot. If you took off a mechs side torso, and it had an IS XL engine in it, I don't believe you get credit for the arm, as the game stops registering damage on the mech as soon as it dies. But, do so in a standard engine mech... and you get more damage?

I've been told conflicting reports on this, but I've seen such high damage when I started to aim for side torsos that I'm inclined to believe it. As a side note, LRMs are known for spreading damage and I tend to find I can pop side torsos rather easily with it. I know they have spread damage, but maybe their incredible damage scores could be from the destruction of side torsos over true spread damage? I have heard of LRM boats (nothing but) dealing more damage than they actually could do in the ammo they carried...


I'm just too uncertain to say either way. What you say sounds right to what I want to believe. What I've seen in game seems to have "cases" that disagree with it... I would like to do some testing for this. I don't have to be in the testing, but I'd love to see it done just for confirmation of the mechanic and all...

[Koniving]

Robinhood78, on 05 February 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

No one has disputed you so maybe you are right, but I'm pretty sure you get credit for the damage to the arm too. Perhaps it isn't noteworthy because it may have been heavily damaged or even already removed. Now if you were to say CT kill a mech with little to no damage to the ST and arms, that would be different since a CT kill destroys the mech.

I would love to have a definitive say on this subject if anyone can provide it. Everything I know about this game I got on the internet and if it is on the internet it must be true

Private match, destroy a side torso after being told how much health there is (including quirks) the side torso has.
Allow the enemy to kill you (so as to not affect the total amount of damage is not lost or altered).

If the damage matches the side torso's health, then it debunks the theory that arm health is awarded to you.
If the damage is far exceeding it... then it proves the theory.

[Rogue Jedi]

TercieI, on 03 February 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

Nothing helps your team win more than killing enemies quickly. Nothing.

that is correct, if you can kill an enemy Mech quickly without suffering much damage then you should absolutely do so.

If however killing the enemy Mech is likely to render your Mech useless but the torso or arm where most of its weapons are located is badly damaged then it is far better to remove the damaged componant and with it most of that Mechs firepower, then move onto the next with that Mech still standing.
of course if you get into a "fair" fight then something has usualy gone wrong anyway

[TercieI]

Rogue Jedi, on 06 February 2017 - 03:46 AM, said:

that is correct, if you can kill an enemy Mech quickly without suffering much damage then you should absolutely do so.

If however killing the enemy Mech is likely to render your Mech useless but the torso or arm where most of its weapons are located is badly damaged then it is far better to remove the damaged componant and with it most of that Mechs firepower, then move onto the next with that Mech still standing.
of course if you get into a "fair" fight then something has usualy gone wrong anyway

Don't disagree with any of that. Just rejecting the premise that disarming would ever be preferable to straight destruction.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Really the only time I would consider an arm worth shooting is if you have at least a 50 point alpha and they have a gauss rifle in it. This is most applicable to Marauder IIC-Ds and Marauder IIC-Scorches right now, and the Night Gyr with such a loadout


Leg shots are exclusive to lights and fast mediums, and mechs that you know have a LOT of ammo stored there-- jagermechs and stalkers are notorious for this and the ammo explosion often takes out the side torso above it as well

[Tesunie]

Snazzy Dragon, on 06 February 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

Leg shots are exclusive to lights and fast mediums, and mechs that you know have a LOT of ammo stored there-- jagermechs and stalkers are notorious for this and the ammo explosion often takes out the side torso above it as well

Ever wonder why I advise people to not place ammo in their legs? Especially on those two mechs at least.

I have found in the time I've played those two mechs, that the arm hit boxes are small and don't get hit often. I commonly place my ammo in the arms, surprisingly enough. Been doing well with it so far... (but now my secret is out! Oh no! )

[Burning2nd]

I can and do actively pick people apart, 1 at a time, someone told me about it the other day watching me... told me to stop playing and help the team,

I didnt notice i was doing something wrong... I am sorry

[Neput Z34]

When is going for a component instead of a kill? I am surprised that no one made a flow chart for this.

( If you are not sure, "Violence not the answer, it is a question and the answer is always Yes" )

Is that the only component poking out from behind cover? (Seriously, who shots WHK-B (2x CUAC10 + CSRM18) in the arms otherwise)

Is armor missing and the are weapons in that component?

Is there a Gauss Rifle? ( do people still use those)

Is there possible ammo other then Gauss Rifle ammo?

Did they skimp on the armor in that location?

Is it a light mech? -> "Legs for the Leg God!"

Does it have IS XL and is not a light mech? -> pick a side torso and drill it

Is it a Clan mech -> limb removal is situational, depending on builds and armor levels of said components.

Example/ Context: I was on Grim Portico skirmish in a AWS-8T (3LPL+2MPL), spoted a "Dakka Kodiak". Took a pot-shot at his legs, the only thing I had a clear shot through buildings/ tanks, his Left Leg armor went orange. A few minutes later my Awsome-8T was missing Left Side Torso (STD 300 FTW), Kodiak was missing both Leg Actuators.

"Does it matter how you skin the kittens as long as you get your mittens?"

(Edit: grammar)

Edited by Neput Z34, 06 February 2017 - 03:47 PM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

I have heard of that, but when I can I try for a kill. It also can be playstyle. Was he in the lead of a wave of a murder ball where taking out a torso and then going onto the next mech is acceptable. The few times I get to do this due to playing with lag and low frame rates are priceless, no LRMs! Normally it is an XL check when I do that and may times after running out of LRMs I get kills on exposed right or left torsos due to XL's. Now clan mechs it just wrecks their damage output or for non-asymmetrical builds, it can turn them into sticks. (AC 20 , 2 PPC Misery's)

Now with larger LRM launchers I do get more torso shot, only when I am firing indirect. That's the problem I like to use LRMs at less than 500 m period with 300 to 400 m being my normal trolling range. (sure I liked to chain fire LRMs in undersized launchers before the ghost heat and set builds up to take advantage of that.) LRM 5's, LRM 10's and LRM 15 with artemis will focus the CT too much.

[Rogue Jedi]

Burnin2nd, on 06 February 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

I can and do actively pick people apart, 1 at a time, someone told me about it the other day watching me... told me to stop playing and help the team,

I didnt notice i was doing something wrong... I am sorry

you were not doing anything wrong per say.

picking the enemy Mech apart maximises your earnings and rewards, however taking a minute to pick the Mech apart does not help your team anywhere near as much as killing or crippleing it in 10-20 seconds, which is easy with focused fire from several Mechs

removing the enemy Mech from the fight as fast as possible helps the team win ^{(and therefore also increases your rewards, but maybe not as much as picking the enemy apart would)}, if your team each tries to pick apart an enemy Mech to maximise earnings while the enemy go for the kill you will run out of Mechs long before the enemy do, and if your team run out of Mechs they loose ^{(unless they run out of time on domination with you with less time on the clock or you have an unsurmountable lead on Conquest, or they have insuffiscent time to kill Omega on Invsaion, or the VIP makes it out on Escort)}

if you want to win go for low damage high precision killing or stripping damaged componants.
if you want to maximise earnings do as much "wasted" damage as possible after your team has the lead, but still do all you can to win