54 replies to this topic

[The Lighthouse]

panzer1b, on 05 February 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

I dont understand the desire to run a standard on any IS mech besides assaults (or the rare few with terribad hitboxes)? To retain any sort of firepower you NEED to have an XL period, unless you want to turn your mech into a point defense turret which will just get outmaneuvered every time. I know i may be biased but in every single game that has vehicular combat and does not rely on something akin to ricochets or armor completely nullifying damage, mobility and firepower tend to be the best way to go for me with just enough armor to do some trading/tanking. That and with quirks its not like XLs are a deathtrap with all but a select few mechs that just have terrible hitboxes. Never had major survivability issues with IS XLs, its just a matter of not being stupid and spreading damage around effectively. Take my marader for example, that thing has huge STs and even there i almost never die due to ST knockout until im so hurt that id be useless even if i did survive the ST destruction.

Anyways, about the whacker, i have to say its a hit and miss mech. I do not own one but facing many of them i have found that they perform pretty well frontally as its one of very few mechs i consider somewhat safe to facetank in provided you move side to side a little bit here and there to keep someone from dumping 60 lazor alfa into one component. Its also somewhat unique in its ability to mount a pretty devastating autocannon loadout which is at least unique. With an XL and the proper speed sacrifice it can run something like dual ac-10 (something that only assasults and heavys can pull off) and it also has a very good 6xsrm boat version. The only 2 major issues ive come across sofar (when shooting them) is that they are incredibly vulnurable to being flanked (same issue that raven got), and that running missile boxes makes it much easier to hit the thing's STs since they stick out and are quite easy to hit with lazors from ~300-400m). Still, Id say its a solid option, prolly not meta or comp or whatnot, but it looks to be fun and defenetely something id at least consider getting once its out for free (f2p here).

Well, I really do not understand the mentality of "you NEED to have an XL." I guess this is the one of the reasons people saying a few chassis are horrid despite the fact that they aren't that much different from other options, because with terrible hitboxes, it cannot run XL well, so it is bad. Which is really funny... if XL is ok because we can all torso twist all day to spread out the damage, why are those mechs called terribad ones? Isn't torso twisting going to save those mechs?

I think having Clan technology and superior techs applied really distort the your perception, but the fact is that IS mechs' problems are not just engine problems: they just don't get enough space to put everything we want. IS XL takes 6 slots, Endo and Ferro takes whooping 14 slots each. Clan only takes 7 slots each and Clan XL takes 4 slots. What's more, most of the time Clan's weapons take far less slots.

I've been toying around my beloved Hunchback, and the fact is with XL and just endo upgrade, I pretty much run out of slots for that all of the tonnage provided by XL engine. Yeah, sure I can put more weapons, but with less space, the mech runs noticeably much hotter. Eventually I realized I was making the mech maybe slightly more alpha strike, and about 10~20 kph faster but far more fragile AND far more heat problems (and of course, ammo problems as well if it is ballistic build.) It is just not worth it. Even if PGI makes IS XL does not explode with one side torso explosion, I will be probably still running the mech with STD engine, not because I want to, but because I can't without too much compromise.

Obviously both you and I have different experience, I understand that. But not all IS mechs can enjoy the benefit of the IS XL engine. Really only IS mechs that actually benefit the most are some heavies and all of the Assault mechs....

...and those mechs are the ones most vulnerable to ST torso explosion.


And lastly, yes. Someone said the truth. It's just a medium mech, and people want it to be as powerful as heavy mech. Yes it does have nearly the armor of Ebon Jaguar, but I don't have much greed for wanting my Bushwacker to have similar fire power as well. I am more than satisfied with a couple of ultra auto cannons and lasers. And I don't need XL to run such builds.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 05 February 2017 - 02:01 PM.

[Oldbob10025]

Enjoying the Bushwacker and going to put it on my normal stables list. I use Standard Engines as I brawl with it most of the time and take down assaults if my hand is not shaking but over all I love this mech and its a monster

[White Bear 84]

The Lighthouse, on 04 February 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

Yes, Bushwacker will have a firepower of a light clan mech and the speed of a clan assault, thanks to XL engine imbalance. However, you can still squeeze two UAC 5 on chassis and 2 medium lasers with STD 250, which is quite respectable fire power with about 79kph movement speed after the elite skills... which is not bad at all. You can do this build on 4 of the 6 chassis too.

^Yup. Think two of my builds have standards in them, totally viable.

[RestosIII]

Okay, so, through the generousness of a beautiful player on these forums (keeping his name a secret for obvious reasons, no-one wants to be begged for stuff) I got a copy of the Bushwacker standard pack. I haven't piloted an Inner Sphere mech in at least 6 months, and only started piloting non-lore builds again a couple weeks ago. And the Bushwacker has "meh" lore builds. Ya'll got any suggestions for me? Mechspecs is pretty dry, honestly.

About all I've got so far that I've done proper runs with is a superstock version of the BSW-X2, and shown here:

Spoiler

As I said earlier, way too used to Clan tech, so I'm having trouble adjusting back into XL engines being such dangerous options, the weight of everything, and LRM minimum ranges being so strict. So if ya'll can give me any advice on what to run, I'd highly appreciate it. (And I'd prefer non-splat options, TBH. Feels a bit weird to run it as a brawler in my mind.)

[FLG 01]

The Lighthouse, on 05 February 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Well, I really do not understand the mentality of "you NEED to have an XL." I guess this is the one of the reasons people saying a few chassis are horrid despite the fact that they aren't that much different from other options, because with terrible hitboxes, it cannot run XL well, so it is bad.

But the Bushwacker does not have bad hitboxes for XL-engines, at least not per se. The geometry is best suited for long and mid-range combat, conversly it is - of course - not the very best for brawling. No surprise. But to be perfectly honest, I am not sure why this is even controversial. Those who have experience on the Crab e.g. could reasonably well predict how well it would run XL or STD engines. I for one was not surprised.

To make this clear, I am not in the camp of the "you must have XL on every BSW". Both options have its merits, but I do believe you should not run STDs just because you are afraid the enemy might flank you. It makes no sense bulding a Mech that reacts to the enemy; always try to be the one to dictate engagement. And if you want to run STDs, do it because you want to have a super tough Mech. I have some STD builds for the Bushwacker too and they are extremely fun builds, even viable on the right maps.

In my experience though, XLs yield better results on the Bushwacker, because of its hitboxes. If you do STDs, you better brawl, and as I have mentioned, the Bushwacker's geometry is not well suited for brawling. Now I know you said it can run dual UAC/5s and ML backup with a speed just shy of 80 kph. Fair enough. The reason I do not run such a build is that the secondary armament is too weak; those UACs will jam in the absence of quirks. (Most of my BSW games are with UACs, so I know the plight). Furthermore you are in a speed range I consider uncomfortable seeing Clan heavies and even assaults can run you down.

RestosIII, on 05 February 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Ya'll got any suggestions for me? Mechspecs is pretty dry, honestly.

First of all, upgrade to XL280. It weighs just as much as the XL275 and obviously provides better speed. (Other things are a matter of philosophy - I would not go into combat with an essentially unarmoured cockpit e.g).
Other than that it is a question of what kind of build you want to run. As a lore fan it pains me to say it, but even super stock does not cut it. I tried, I failed. I feel that building around dual UAC/5 or dual AC/10 is probably the most effective way if you don't want an SRM bomber.
LRM boats look relatively good on paper, but somehow I could never make them work.

Edited by FLG 01, 05 February 2017 - 06:36 PM.

[RestosIII]

FLG 01, on 05 February 2017 - 06:35 PM, said:

First of all, upgrade to XL280. It weighs just as much as the XL275 and obviously provides better speed. (Other things are a matter of philosophy - I would not go into combat with an essentially unarmoured cockpit e.g).
Other than that it is a question of what kind of build you want to run. As a lore fan it pains me to say it, but even super stock does not cut it. I tried, I failed. I feel that building around dual UAC/5 or dual AC/10 is probably the most effective way if you don't want an SRM bomber.
LRM boats look relatively good on paper, but somehow I could never make them work.

'Aight. Had an XL 280 lying around, switched them out. Never run Clan Battlemechs, so I'm a huge potato in regards to engines. And I'm used to running cockpits with no armor due to my experience with lore builds, trying to scrape by and get tonnage wherever you can.

And I almost never run LRMs, but it just feels... right to have them on a Bushwacker. My goal with mechs is just making them feel right and look right.

[MacClearly]

RestosIII, on 05 February 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Okay, so, through the generousness of a beautiful player on these forums (keeping his name a secret for obvious reasons, no-one wants to be begged for stuff) I got a copy of the Bushwacker standard pack. I haven't piloted an Inner Sphere mech in at least 6 months, and only started piloting non-lore builds again a couple weeks ago. And the Bushwacker has "meh" lore builds. Ya'll got any suggestions for me? Mechspecs is pretty dry, honestly.

About all I've got so far that I've done proper runs with is a superstock version of the BSW-X2, and shown here:

Spoiler

As I said earlier, way too used to Clan tech, so I'm having trouble adjusting back into XL engines being such dangerous options, the weight of everything, and LRM minimum ranges being so strict. So if ya'll can give me any advice on what to run, I'd highly appreciate it. (And I'd prefer non-splat options, TBH. Feels a bit weird to run it as a brawler in my mind.)

That is awesome that someone is putting the unity back into community. Hope you have the giggles and grins this mech gave me.

[FLG 01]

RestosIII, on 05 February 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

And I almost never run LRMs, but it just feels... right to have them on a Bushwacker. My goal with mechs is just making them feel right and look right.

Good goal.

And I agree, the Bushwacker feels right with LRM. (At least until we get the great BSW-L1 and -S2r).
Perhaps I had just bad luck (or is it the absence of LRM quirks?). Anyway, since my LRM attempts on the BSW were unsuccessful, I better don't give advice in this matter. That would be somewhat hypocritical... Sorry.

[Clanner Scum]

It's alright. I dunno if I just suck with it or what, but it dies pretty quickly. I assume that's because of the large side torsos and stock XL engine that people have mentioned.

[Y E O N N E]

I'm gonna have to take mine out soon. Was waiting for Medium queue to die down a bit. Everybody says XLs are awful in Marauders, but I do great with them. I am wondering if that won't also apply to the Bushy.

[RestosIII]

FLG 01, on 05 February 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Good goal.

And I agree, the Bushwacker feels right with LRM. (At least until we get the great BSW-L1 and -S2r).
Perhaps I had just bad luck (or is it the absence of LRM quirks?). Anyway, since my LRM attempts on the BSW were unsuccessful, I better don't give advice in this matter. That would be somewhat hypocritical... Sorry.

I'm curious, what do you think of the 3x AC/5 build? I hate stripping armor from my arms in mechs, but... It looks like it would work pretty well, honestly.

[Stonefalcon]

Snazzy Dragon, on 04 February 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

But then you get the firepower of a light mech and the speed of a slow heavy!

IDK, 2 UAC/5's + 2 MPLs that does 82kph. Doesn't seem like either of those.

[meteorol]

Pariah Devalis, on 05 February 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

That rant out of the way? My experience, fighting Bushwackers in scouting mode primarily? It's an extremely tanky medium mech. Having compressed frontal hit boxes means SRM spam against it doesn't have the same sort of damage chunking to any given component that I'd expect firing on, say, a Grif or a Shadow Hawk, as the splat will tend to spread between several components, even in a direct torso hit. Even before the 10 extra armor on it per section, which is a large amount of extra armor given the weight of the mech.

Just use a spl nova instead. It murders bushwackers left and right. They are dropping like flies.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 February 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

I'm gonna have to take mine out soon. Was waiting for Medium queue to die down a bit. Everybody says XLs are awful in Marauders, but I do great with them. I am wondering if that won't also apply to the Bushy.

There's an issue where frontal hits can count as rear hits and can blow your XL out from behind, but other than that as long as you aren't giving up side profile (which if you can do that in a 75 ton mech I see no reason why you couldn't do it in a 55 ton mech) it's pretty XL "friendly"

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 February 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

I'm gonna have to take mine out soon. Was waiting for Medium queue to die down a bit. Everybody says XLs are awful in Marauders, but I do great with them. I am wondering if that won't also apply to the Bushy.

Just from a single day of piloting it, I can tell you, it's just a 55 ton Marauder. I love it. (And yeah, as long as you don't have the middle pods, about the same XL reliability as a Marauder)