61 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

... I mean, do you know Paradox the DEVs of EU4?

When they make a huge change to the game (or even small one or optional DLC), they post info on the change months in advance.

They detail what they are going to do, test it internally, make adjustments and IF there is a bug, they hotfix it within days.

I guess PGI is much smaller and has way less money, but wouldn't more information a good thing?

I mean that is a major patch...

EDIT2:

On the PDX forums you can mark a comment as "HELPFULL", for the devs, mods and forumites its more easy to identify post more easy.

LIKE, (DISLIKE), HELPFULL, FUNNY - Are great additions to a forum. I don't like dislikes, just not liking what you don't like is good enough imo.

Edited by WolvesX, 07 February 2017 - 03:47 AM.

[Bud Crue]

This is the PGI way. There is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary here. Information black outs, contradictory hints as to what is coming, a time line that they may or may not stick to, etc. This is the PGI way.

[TercieI]

They said "early Febraury" for PTS. The day before the patch is early right?

[Tarl Cabot]

I expect there to be no difference in the skill trees available between one mech to another, no actual flavor per mech. Which makes one wonder, why even revamp it? To get rid of the current skill tree while rolling in the modules and some quirks, to reduce the overall effect of the current setup.

[El Bandito]

Bud Crue, on 06 February 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

This is the PGI way. There is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary here. Information black outs, contradictory hints as to what is coming, a time line that they may or may not stick to, etc. This is the PGI way.

Sounds like Maskirovka. PGI = Capellan Confederation, confirmed. With Maximilian Liao as head.

[WolvesX]

Tarl Cabot, on 06 February 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

I expect there to be no difference in the skill trees available between one mech to another, no actual flavor per mech. Which makes one wonder, why even revamp it? To get rid of the current skill tree while rolling in the modules and some quirks, to reduce the overall effect of the current setup.

Well, I take one skill tree for all over bad/unbalanced skill trees on every mech.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

This annoyed me greatly. Last I heard from PGI about the skills tree was that they were aiming to have have a talk about skills tree which would answer a few of our questions. By aiming it seemed they missed.

Some news is better than no news, at least a revised date would be kind to the people following this game.

PTS I am hoping has been abducted and slain.

[jper4]

TercieI, on 06 February 2017 - 05:18 AM, said:

They said "early Febraury" for PTS. The day before the patch is early right?

was the year this "early feb." fell in specified? I don't remember.

[Vellron2005]

I think that the skill tree is a VERY big change to the game, and they will probably push it back.. when they go silent, they push things back..

I would be sad, however, if they scrubbed it.. cose' its an awesome idea..

[Lucky Noob]

just imagine, they have to put all Quirks into the Skilltree somehow,
If not, IS is screwed.

i fear the worst and hope for the best.

[TercieI]

Lucky Noob, on 06 February 2017 - 06:46 AM, said:

just imagine, they have to put all Quirks into the Skilltree somehow,
If not, IS is screwed.

i fear the worst and hope for the best.

Russ did say some quirks will remain. But it will inevitably flip the balance tables. They have to do that at least once a year to hide the fact that they're terrible at detailed balance.

[Appogee]

Tarl Cabot, on 06 February 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

Which makes one wonder, why even revamp it?

Why...? They are revamping it so you can't swap modules around between Mechs (net: higher cost to achieve what you have now), to incent you to spend money converting XP to GXP, and to create much bigger/longer sinks for all the accrued CBills and XP that regular players currently have sitting around.

TercieI, on 06 February 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

Russ did say some quirks will remain. But it will inevitably flip the balance tables. They have to do that at least once a year month to hide the fact that they're terrible at detailed balance encourage regular players to spend CBills and XP re-speccing to the latest flavor of quirked up metamech.

FTFY.

Vellron2005, on 06 February 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

I would be sad, however, if they scrubbed it.. cose' its an awesome idea..

It's only been 3 years since launch that they've maintained a placeholder skill tree with unlocks that do nothing.

Please, stop rushing them!

Edited by Appogee, 06 February 2017 - 07:42 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

P.G.I never do anything on time, unless it's a mech pack.

They either launch it without testing, and then resist how obivousley bad the new features are until the population riots here, and starts to leave, they then reluctantly change it after about a year, of it's brokeness going live.

Or it goes to the test server where it's pulled apart and shown how poorly conceived it is, and then either dropped completely or for ego's sake small bits sometimes the least worse parts get added after about three months of forum rage.


While most people want information, no news around here, is usually a very good thing as it means P.G.I's latest 'winner' is delayed, because even they realise it won't work

[RestosIII]

I'm a little bit worried, because changes to this game are akin to a major surgery. The less news you get, and the longer it takes for it to finish, the larger chance something went wrong and someone's going to be missing a leg.

[1453 R]

El Bandito, on 06 February 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

Sounds like Maskirovka. PGI = Capellan Confederation, confirmed. With Maximilian Liao as head.

How is this not a Romano sort of thing? Madness and capriciousness were specifically her hallmarks!

But yes.

This is, unfortunately, SOP for Piranha these days. Minimum possible communication and interaction due to their poisoned relationship with the playerbase they refuse to try and repair. Which is bizarre because it would take relatively little actual effort to repair that relationship for most folks. Just look at the huge swell of goodwill they had going on right after IGP left and they were posting or whatever-ing every day.

Why Russ believes the Mushroom Treatment is so optimal for this business, I will never comprehend...

[RestosIII]

1453 R, on 06 February 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

This is, unfortunately, SOP for Piranha these days. Minimum possible communication and interaction due to their poisoned relationship with the playerbase they refuse to try and repair. Which is bizarre because it would take relatively little actual effort to repair that relationship for most folks. Just look at the huge swell of goodwill they had going on right after IGP left and they were posting or whatever-ing every day.

Just look at the good will Mark Nicholson has from the times he's come here and posted. If more PGI employees did that sort of thing, I'd be a lot less worried that something bad was going on.

[Bud Crue]

Cathy, on 06 February 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

P.G.I never do anything on time, unless it's a mech pack.

They either launch it without testing, and then resist how obivousley bad the new features are until the population riots here, and starts to leave, they then reluctantly change it after about a year, of it's brokeness going live.

Or it goes to the test server where it's pulled apart and shown how poorly conceived it is, and then either dropped completely or for ego's sake small bits sometimes the least worse parts get added after about three months of forum rage.


While most people want information, no news around here, is usually a very good thing as it means P.G.I's latest 'winner' is delayed, because even they realise it won't work

Oooomm. Oooomm.

Be not bothered by the inevitable. Feel the zen of PGI before you and embrace the tao of unending hope and despair. It is the cycle of MWO development. Be at peace with oblivion.

Oooomm. Oooomm

[SmokedJag]

As a new player who understands most of what I'm looking at from BT/MW experience...

The skill tree/module revamp as explained would be good for new players who might otherwise dig the game but get wrecked by semi-hidden startup taxes. It took me several matches to figure out that I was having a harder time seeing and hiding from other 'Mechs and then I had to go root around as to why. Oh, it turns out that on any of my Trial 'Mechs or the 'Mechs I buy I'm down several million worth of essential equipment and tens of thousands worth of GXP compared to these other guys. Wait, it costs WHAT to earn GXP and I have to do WHAT to get elite skills on one of my 'Mechs besides that?

That's not intuitive and its brutal; the triple master is also an immediate paywall if you want to get that done in a reasonable amount of time to baseline compete. I can cope but I know an awful lot more about how to fight 'Mechs than someone in the general gaming population who picks this up as a possibly interesting F2P does. A visible, accessible skill tree without hidden f'ing mandatory equipment would go a long way. For everything that World of Tanks (and boats) does poorly, seal clubbing equipment is more of a fringe thing than SOP - and it is nowhere near as powerful as these items. The big offender was Sixth Sense, but MWO has multiple versions of that, all of which you kinda need and most of which are more powerful. Like "I can see through this building but you can't" - WTF???

So, conceptually, good.

OTOH, giving Clans ready access to perks that neuter their MWO disadvantages and/or undo balance decisions is not a good thing where the main game mode is unrestricted 12v12. Clans have always been imbalanced in BT when allowed to fight unrestricted by rules, BV or weight limits. They're imbalanced by design, intended to be shockingly more advanced and capable of winning a full weight class up or 2v1ing comparable tonnage opponents. MWO has come down hard on that repeatedly, both directly (DHS nerf, locked components) and indirectly/globally (hardpoints, ghost heat restricting energy boats etc). Most people would still say most Clan 'Mech classes can outperform their IS counterparts; Clan lights are crap at being lights but that's a core Clan flavor "feature" where something that can't kill anything or is supposed to be support is humiliating. But besides that, 5-10 minutes of heavy weapons for DEATH OR GLORY is what Clanners do.

We don't really need an alpha-striking, FF-equivalent Dire Wolf Prime from picking up quirks to stack on armor and drive down heat.

[Gas Guzzler]

SmokedJag, on 06 February 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

As a new player who understands most of what I'm looking at from BT/MW experience...

The skill tree/module revamp as explained would be good for new players who might otherwise dig the game but get wrecked by semi-hidden startup taxes. It took me several matches to figure out that I was having a harder time seeing and hiding from other 'Mechs and then I had to go root around as to why. Oh, it turns out that on any of my Trial 'Mechs or the 'Mechs I buy I'm down several million worth of essential equipment and tens of thousands worth of GXP compared to these other guys. Wait, it costs WHAT to earn GXP and I have to do WHAT to get elite skills on one of my 'Mechs besides that?

That's not intuitive and its brutal; the triple master is also an immediate paywall if you want to get that done in a reasonable amount of time to baseline compete. I can cope but I know an awful lot more about how to fight 'Mechs than someone in the general gaming population who picks this up as a possibly interesting F2P does. A visible, accessible skill tree without hidden f'ing mandatory equipment would go a long way. For everything that World of Tanks (and boats) does poorly, seal clubbing equipment is more of a fringe thing than SOP - and it is nowhere near as powerful as these items. The big offender was Sixth Sense, but MWO has multiple versions of that, all of which you kinda need and most of which are more powerful. Like "I can see through this building but you can't" - WTF???

So, conceptually, good.

OTOH, giving Clans ready access to perks that neuter their MWO disadvantages and/or undo balance decisions is not a good thing where the main game mode is unrestricted 12v12. Clans have always been imbalanced in BT when allowed to fight unrestricted by rules, BV or weight limits. They're imbalanced by design, intended to be shockingly more advanced and capable of winning a full weight class up or 2v1ing comparable tonnage opponents. MWO has come down hard on that repeatedly, both directly (DHS nerf, locked components) and indirectly/globally (hardpoints, ghost heat restricting energy boats etc). Most people would still say most Clan 'Mech classes can outperform their IS counterparts; Clan lights are crap at being lights but that's a core Clan flavor "feature" where something that can't kill anything or is supposed to be support is humiliating. But besides that, 5-10 minutes of heavy weapons for DEATH OR GLORY is what Clanners do.

We don't really need an alpha-striking, FF-equivalent Dire Wolf Prime from picking up quirks to stack on armor and drive down heat.

The Dire definitely doesn't need to be worse than it is now, its already not a top mech.

As to the rest, the problem is new players now have the free will to pick up whatever skills they want, which means that gives them the opportunity to pick skills that arent that useful, which means they will have to go back and re-buy all the right skills or remain suboptimal, which actually makes it harder on the new player. For the current system all you have to do is explore all the buttons in the mechlab to figure out that you can get some things to improve your mech. In short, the cbill/xp sink isnt going anywhere, you will still need lots of both.

[Juodas Varnas]

I honestly could not care any less about the skill tree.

I just can't force myself to care at all.