46 replies to this topic

[TooDumbToQuit]

I called it the "Circle Dance of Death".

Did anyone tell you how to actually do it?

I'm not used to keyboard movement but I practiced it a little in the testing grounds. You hold the W button down while tapping the A or D one.

If you are trying to defend against one, one great way is to get on the comms and say "I have a Light problem at E5 and I really need help" and that will work unless you have yourself so far away you cannot be reached.

[Dandred]

Practice is probably not a bad place to start. You can start with the stationary targets in the test maps and then move on to others. Also, knowing which mechs are slow or noticing which builds are slow help as well.

The best defense against, as well as offense using strafing runs is teammates. A strafing wolf pack is a terror and glorious thing to behold and participate in.

Also, a light will not generally engage a group of even slow movers if there are many of them together. It will much more likely take a hit and fade and look for another approach, unless they are squirreling.

Another thing to consider is that this is a skill that seems to be ignored by heavier mechs, but works with anyone. Angular deflection is your best defense in any weight class mech outside of cover. While lights make the most use of this, heavier mechs can spread and mitigate damage by circling their target as well. The slower you are, the less effective this can be on its own but combined with torso twisting and greatly increase your survival. Not even the Atlas should run in a straight line all the time.

[Roadbuster]

How to avoid getting @§$?!# by light mechs when piloting slow mechs:

1. Don't stray too far from your team. If a light mech (or more than one) catches an assault far away from the rest of the team and without suitable cover, it's going to be a bad day.

2. Never try to chase a light mech. They can and will outmaneuver you and they are faster than you. Running around doesn't help much either.
What you need to do is

Don't try to tuuuuuuuurn till you get the light under your crosshait. Twist your torso to spread damage and try to prevent that light from staying in your back by twisting your torso and trying to keep your weapons on it.

3. As some mechs are just not very good twisters (I'm looking at you Direwhale), you have to change your strategy. Use your surroundings to your advantage.
Now, that won't work on a open area without cover, but it works well if you have a building, a wall or something else near you.
Put your back against the wall to prevent light mechs from getting there. Even better if you can stand in a corner, because of the limited angle from where they can attack, you can cover the whole arc with your weapons.

4. If you are a LRM-boat, see 1.

5.

Edited by Roadbuster, 07 February 2017 - 08:29 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I've found it difficult to circle a slow assult and try to cut him out. I've recently got a Jenner IIC with it's really fast engine and 6 energy hardpoints.

I think with my Jenner the problem is it's too fast, I would need to use the throttle to about maybe 70-80% and that requires either doing a very long movement with left hand which likely still requires that I look at the keyboard, or doing it with my right hand which has the same problem, it takes time and eyes off the screen, but I least I can still run (into a wall and get stuck) while trying to engage lesser throttle.

It is a lot easier looking to take out an assult with a light mech, when you look at it from the point of view of the assult mech, as the light mech is likely practiced it well. When you actually try to do it yourself on a good laser vomit light, it's quite more difficult. I've often just managed to fire few times my all 6 lasers and them boom, I'm dead.

And this is againts notoriously slow assults like Dire Wolfs and Stalkers. I haven't even seen more dangerous assults like Kodiak as they are usually in front of their team. I have a lot better chances of dealing damage againts assults in my Mist Lynx from 1000 meters.


Myself I rarely have particularly bad problems with light mechs in my Dire anymore. It takes some practise and getting speed quirks doesn't hurt either.
But I would say it's not about how you can deal a light mech that engages you from close range, as depending on your loadout, you just might not be able to. This particular applies to clan assults which can and often will boat heavy energy weapons which are too hot to fight againts a light.

It's more about avoiding the whole situation completely. And I think, to do that, there's no easy way. It takes practice to know where and where not to, it's not a bunch of tricks you can learn easily.

[Sickario]

I've gotten a lot of great feedback so forgive me while I try to answer them all in one reply haha:

Jingseng, on 06 February 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

Yes, i remember those too... and we do not have them in MWO. We have 'circling', but it is often an imperfect thing... because your forward speed is not equal to your lateral speed. So often pilots will have to stop (usually behind you while shooting) and adjust their vectors... or just plain crash into you.

Knowing this can help you when moving and countering, by timing your movements and direction to further throw off their moves and give yourself some aiming space... or engineer a crash for a point blank beating.

Yeah I'm definitely oversimplifying it when I say "circle", many people keep correcting me on this but I realize it's not really a circle, and it's seldom in just one direction. Just that very first time was it a circle because I was in so much shock at how fast he moved around me and how quickly he took me down that I just stood there. Talk about shock and awe haha.

Fox With A Shotgun, on 07 February 2017 - 12:54 AM, said:

One thing I'd like to add here is that good light pilots will NOT circle strafe you in the event that a 1v1 happens - and they know that backup isn't behind you.

They look at where your feet are going, and match it while travelling backwards. For this reason, if you want to counter circle strafing, there's really only two options. You can move backwards and hope they keep trying to circle strafe, or you can back up against the nearest wall and don't expose your back.

Yeah right now I'd say my biggest issue is awareness. Most times when I die it's because I don't realize that my teammates have backed away/moved off to the side because they saw the enemy making a huge push. Suddenly I'm by myself and facing a bunch of enemy Mechs, I get blasted in the face and I'm dead in a few seconds.

The other issue about awareness is I'm concentrating so much on a fight in front of me that I don't notice the enemy behind me taking shots, until I suddenly die from those rear attacks. I'm working on it! Most of my mechs only have 1 slot for mech modules (I have a couple of Mechs at Elite level but none of them at Master so I have no idea what slot it gives me, but I hope it's the Mech slots such as Radar Deprivation, so I can get Seismic Sensor on my other Mechs as well. The information is probably out there somewhere but I haven't bothered looking it up yet since it will (hopefully) be obsolete information in the near future.

SnagaDance, on 07 February 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

Something not yet mentined but a huge help in keeping guns on target: did you lower your mouse sensitivity in the game option already?

For some unfathomable reason PGI still has this setting at the full 1 as standard even though noone ever needs that much sensitivity. Lower it to something like 0.20 or 0.15 (depends on mouse dpi and such) and see how that goes for you.

I have not changed it (I don't think I have, I'll check in a few). I'll have to get used to it if I do change it but best to get that out of the way so I can relearn it ASAP. How about acceleration and/or "smooth"? Not really sure what smooth does. Either way these sound like a great suggestion, thanks!

Rogue Jedi, on 07 February 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

with regards to arms, some Mechs ^{(Stalker, King Crab, Catapult, Jagermech, Blackjack, Jenner and Locust to name a few)} have no lower arm actuator, that means the arm cannot move side to side without moving the torso as well ^{(but they can still aim up/down if the arms are not locked)}, other Mechs have a lower arm actuator on just 1 arm, those Mechs have limited side to side movement available on the arms, Mechs with lower acturators on both arms have much more side to side arm movement than those with just 1, the hand actuator does not help with side to side movement.

basicly what the lower arm actuator buys you ^{(assuming arm lock is not active)} is much faster tracking for your arm mounted weapons, and a further range of movement for those weapons, lets say you are piloting an Atlas ^{(it has lower arm acturtors on both arms)} now a light Mech is circleng you, if your arms are locked your ability to track is limited to the torsos range of movement and your Mechs twist speed, now lets say you unlock the arms, suddenly your arm mounted weapons have almost double the tracking speed and (on most varients) an extra 40^o each way of movement, which concidering the atlas has 80^o of torso movement means the arms literaly double your arm weapons movement range and speed.

Light Mechs in the right hands are rather good at killing assualt Mechs, basicly a good assualt pilot will easily take care of a Light Mech with an inexperianced pilot, however if they are of equil skill I would bet on the Light Mech winning.

the things which would make me (a highly experianced Light pilot) back off from an assualt are if it switches into reverse to speed turning, and proves able to hit my legs ^{(in most Lights I do not care about taking damage to the torsos because that is spread between 3-5 hitboxes with each shot but damage to the legs is only spread between 2 hitboxes so the legs will not last as long)}, or if it puts its back up against a wall

many people put almost no armor on the back, I have Light Mechs setup specificaly to strip 8^(SDR-5K)-30 ^{(VPR-M, yes technicaly a medium but realy just an overweight Light)} points of armor with a laser alpha strike then remove yout CT internal structure in about 5 seconds with a combonation of lasers and machine guns, against armor a single machine gun does 0.8 dps, 4 do 3.2, 6 do 4.8, however they have a high critical hit ratio meaning against structure they can do several times that much damage,

in those builds I have many times been accused of cheating because the enemy thaught I killed them from 1km+ with a single Alpha strike, rather than what realy happened, me getting behind them while they were distracted and killing them with Pulse Lasers + MGs in ^{(usualy much)} less than 10 seconds.

Wow that is some great info, I'm definitely going to have to make sure I get those arm actuators activated (on my mechs that have them) and to make sure they aren't locked. I've noticed that certain weapons (ballistics?) seem to render the arm actuators inaccessible, but I can't remember which ones do that exactly.

Amatsukaze, on 07 February 2017 - 05:00 AM, said:

One thing I have noticed if I am in a locust is if the mech I am attacking only has torso mounted weapons they cant depress their guns enough to shoot you if you are standing at their feet. One poor guy thought he was smart backing against a wall in Grim Plexis well I just stood on his toes basically & wore his legs out.

Haha that is AWESOME, I'll have to remember that (as long as I notice they only have torso-mounted weapons, I'm still learning how to read all the relevant data about a target ASAP).

LikeUntoGod, on 07 February 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

I called it the "Circle Dance of Death".

Did anyone tell you how to actually do it?

I'm not used to keyboard movement but I practiced it a little in the testing grounds. You hold the W button down while tapping the A or D one.

If you are trying to defend against one, one great way is to get on the comms and say "I have a Light problem at E5 and I really need help" and that will work unless you have yourself so far away you cannot be reached.

In theory I know how to do it. The difference for me is I'm a lefty, and that's an advantage for me because I'm using my mouse with my left hand and my right hand is on the keypad, which I've customized for movement, targeting, centering the legs, zoom, jump jets and MASC (if I have them on that Mech), slot 1 and 2 consumables, zoom, center legs, alpha, and full stop. There may be others but that's all I can think of, the rest I'll use on the keyboard, I use the more urgent/important functions on the keypad.

Thanks, everyone, for your input so far. I love asking questions here, you guys are very helpful.

Edited by Sickario, 07 February 2017 - 10:54 AM.

[Vlad Striker]

First - stand still if you want to maximize your turn speed, second - unlock arms. Third - lock target to make know team members about enemy.

[Rogue Jedi]

Sickario, on 07 February 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

Wow that is some great info, I'm definitely going to have to make sure I get those arm actuators activated (on my mechs that have them) and to make sure they aren't locked. I've noticed that certain weapons (ballistics?) seem to render the arm actuators inaccessible, but I can't remember which ones do that exactly.

Omnimechs have a tick box for lower arm and hand actuators ^{(although there are some arm onmipods without those options)}, if you put a PPC or Balistic weapon in the arm it can no longer have those actuators, Battlemechs have the actuators fixed, you cannot add or remove those actuators

Omnimechs include all Clan Mechs except the IIC Mechs, the Kodiak and the forthcomming Supernova, those and all IS Mechs are Battlemechs, basicly if you cannot change the engine it is an Omnimech

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Vlad Striker, on 07 February 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

First - stand still if you want to maximize your turn speed, second - unlock arms. Third - lock target to make know team members about enemy.

Maximising turn speed isn't everything. If the light is already up his rear CT, it doesn't matter how fast your assault mech can turn. The light will always be able to match your leg position and just leg you to death. You need to be able to put your back up against a wall to make a light mech back off, and that means you need to reverse or go forwards as quickly as you possibly can.

[Leone]

Sickario, on 07 February 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

Wow that is some great info, I'm definitely going to have to make sure I get those arm actuators activated (on my mechs that have them) and to make sure they aren't locked. I've noticed that certain weapons (ballistics?) seem to render the arm actuators inaccessible, but I can't remember which ones do that exactly.

I've found the best way for me is with a toggle. I'm right handed, so I use the classic wasd set up, with shift as my arm lock toggle. Normally, I walk around arms locked, so as to focus my arm an torso fire on the same component, but then I can toggle arms free if I want to shoot a fast moving target, or hit something out of my torso field like a uav or somethin'.

You can get real in depth with arms free, like looking up in an atlas to raise your arms an try an block more shots when torso twisting, or suppressing two targets at once, or freelook with armlock off to extend dead side coverage, but don't worry bout that stuff to you feel like you've a grasp of the basics. Just, know there's more to look forward to.

~Leone.

[MOBAjobg]

Select a heavy mech that can jump and has a speed of about 80kph instead of an assault as a start to learn the basics of piloting skill.

Don't forget to take cover, aim at the right component and shoot without missing its target. Make sure that your mech does not shutdown and press override when necessary.

[Rogue Jedi]

MOBAjobg, on 08 February 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

Select a heavy mech that can jump and has a speed of about 80kph instead of an assault as a start to learn the basics of piloting skill.

yes, a heavy would better to learn on than an assualt, although I think a medium would be the best choice as a starter ^{(lower priority target than the heavy and therefore more forgiving)}

MWO is not like the classic Mechwarrior games where Lights are what you start in and work your way up to medium, heavy and finaly assualt Mechs, PGI has done a pretty good job of making every weight class, and indeed most individual Mechs have there place.

starting in Lights or assualts in concidered hard mode,
an experianced pilot who has learned to use Light Mechs can have a huge impact on the cource of the match, but 1-2 solid hits and it is out of the fight, however good luck getting those solid hits on an experianced light pilot, however a new light pilot is a totaly diferant matter.

an assualt cannot usualy get out if trouble due to speed issues, so you need to stay with the team, and not get left behind or stay in the open because as much firepower and armor as an assualt has it can go down inside 5 seconds if half the enemy team target it, while a Light can often survive a minute or more with the whole enemy team trying to kill it

[Sickario]

Leone, on 07 February 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

I've found the best way for me is with a toggle. I'm right handed, so I use the classic wasd set up, with shift as my arm lock toggle. Normally, I walk around arms locked, so as to focus my arm an torso fire on the same component, but then I can toggle arms free if I want to shoot a fast moving target, or hit something out of my torso field like a uav or somethin'.

You can get real in depth with arms free, like looking up in an atlas to raise your arms an try an block more shots when torso twisting, or suppressing two targets at once, or freelook with armlock off to extend dead side coverage, but don't worry bout that stuff to you feel like you've a grasp of the basics. Just, know there's more to look forward to.

~Leone.

That sounds both very clever and beyond my skill set for now, but I do have a spare button on my keypad (I think), I'll check and if I do I can make that the toggle, so I can start getting in the habit of using it. Thanks!

[Sickario]

MOBAjobg, on 08 February 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

Select a heavy mech that can jump and has a speed of about 80kph instead of an assault as a start to learn the basics of piloting skill.

Don't forget to take cover, aim at the right component and shoot without missing its target. Make sure that your mech does not shutdown and press override when necessary.

My favorite Mech is a Heavy but they usually are the most used in Quick Play so I tend to play Assault more, but I guess it'll be worth the extra wait time to learn to use arms along with better targetting.

I've recently joined a unit and they need me to play Medium or Lights so I suppose I can concentrate on those to practice as well. Obviously they aren't as sturdy as Heavies but if I limit that practice to Mediums (Lights appear to be a completely different fighting style, from what I can tell, and I should probably hold off on them until I've mastered the Mediums more, especially not missing since that IS an issue with me) then I may survive long enough. If I get blasted as soon as I reveal myself then I'll have to limit my practice of those maneuvers to my Heavy. Great suggestion, many thanks!

[Koniving]

Leone, on 07 February 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

I've found the best way for me is with a toggle. I'm right handed, so I use the classic wasd set up, with shift as my arm lock toggle. Normally, I walk around arms locked, so as to focus my arm an torso fire on the same component, but then I can toggle arms free if I want to shoot a fast moving target, or hit something out of my torso field like a uav or somethin'.

You can get real in depth with arms free, like looking up in an atlas to raise your arms an try an block more shots when torso twisting, or suppressing two targets at once, or freelook with armlock off to extend dead side coverage, but don't worry bout that stuff to you feel like you've a grasp of the basics. Just, know there's more to look forward to.

~Leone.

I do the opposite, I walk with the arms unlocked and lock them when I want to hit a target precisely, including faster targets (note I also throw it in three quarters reverse and counter turn, and if I lose track of them I twist the opposite way to meet them.

The OP can find a sample of my methods here.

When the Raven ambushes me... after I intimidate an Atlas who has both a numbers advantage and a firepower advantage into backing off and get him and his Muromets escort.

(When Suddenly Raven drops on me, there's a music change.... Seriously he literally seems to appear out of nowhere.)

Using arms to deal with lights. And taking out Lights with 2 Normal SRM-2s. Not streaks.


Most recent video.

That Locust at the end was killed by utilizing a fundamental law of convergence from the left arm.

[Sickario]

Very nice videos, Koniving.

[Nightmare1]

@OP: Here you go! Training stream regarding Mech movement, JJs, and circle strafing. Jump to 29:50 for the circle strafing and torso twisting part.

[GenghisJr]

Attacking or defending, your mobility is vastly increased if your speed is only 90% of max - use this knowledge wisely

[Flak Kannon]

I will say that certain light mechs are better than other light mechs for getting and staying, or circle strafing. Locust and Commandos are the best by FAR. Followed by Ice Ferret and Spider.

The resizing of the Cheetah, Firestarter, Wolfhound, and Panther, made it so that these lights are now at a disadvantage. They pack more punch, but are so much more volumetrically larger.

I know that you put me in my Com 3A, that only carries 2 ml and 2 srm2s, and any mech from 30 to 100 tons that isn't a Streak Boat, I will tear it apart one v one. 8 or 9 out of 10 times. Its the mechs inherent agility which makes it capable of being lethal. Add a pilot that has 100's if not 1000's of drops in in them, .. can be unfair.

The strafing of a light mech is as close to twitch gaming as MWO gets, So .. as with any twitch game, repetition, repetition, repetition is the key. With time, you see your ingress and egress before you even get there.. you see how the enemy pilot is turning or tracking you and you adjust, you see elevation changes to take advantage of, you see other, close enemy mechs turning your way in a split second, and then you twist, and dodge, and weave running out of there at 167 kph. Raw speed is life. And NEVER run in ANY straight line... ever.. and you NEVER stop moving.

Still to this day, the Commando is my favorite mech in the game, and I have many hundreds of mechs.

With all that said, the best way to learn to either play that way, or defend that way ( the circle strafe) is with practice. I can not tell you how difficult it was to learn early on in this game. When my Cataphracts and Atlas were CHEWED UP by a lone Spider with .. 1 LL and a few Machine Guns.. the math didn't add up for me either...but I learned through repeated failure.



Enjoi

[ExoForce]

Bump because reasons.
Today I discovered how to make perfect circles. 1 v 1 vs Cataphract, in a Mad Dog.
Killed it with 3 med pulse lasers.
Me proud. Hate bad grammar.

[Chryckan]

Don't forget as always the Urbie has a more superior variant of the circle strafe.

You stand still and strafe in a circle!