16 replies to this topic

[Jeremiah Thoryn]

Greetings fellow mechwarriors. Going to keep this somewhat short as I am typing this from a crappy smartphone. Along with the missile tube issue being addressed in the future, do you think a buff to victors jump jets as a quirk to the chassis would be enough to make this poor mech viable again? I was thinking along the lines of an ~50% jump jet height buff.

According to smurfy the Victor with 4 JJ's can reach a height of 23.91 meters. A 50% buff to this jump height would give a total height of ~36 meters.

The Night Gyr reaches 28.13 meters, which I think is the bare minimum a mech needs to have a decent chance at doing any kind of poptarting. 36 meters is obviously greater than 28 meters, but the Night Gyr also has superior high mounts. The extra bit of height I am proposing would hopefully help put it near parity as the Gyr far as being able to poptart. I understand poptarting is distasteful to many people as a legit playstyle, but that is for another thread. Furthermore it would make the victor unique in a fashion that it's jump jets would be somewhat useful again on this mech and would allow for a poptarting assault mech on the IS side.

[Bud Crue]

A mech specific JJ quirk would be unprecedented. PGI, over the last year, has made it abundantly clear that they prefer broad based system wide buffs and nerfs to entire systems (see clan XL changes, see all weapons changes over the last year, etc.) rather than apply such quirks individually or with specificity. So assuming that is how they continue to do things, the question becomes would a buff to class II (or all) jump jets make "this poor mech viable again"?

Sure. Its "viable' now with the armor quirks it just received. Still middling to crap compared to other assaults, but certainly viable, but would PGI ever allow it to be "viable" as a poptart? No. I don't think PGI will ever allow that to happen given the history here. Any buff to jump jets that they would ever consider would be minuscule. PGI views poptarting as some ultra game imbalancing plague and they will not let it live long even when it does occur (see recent nerfs to loyalty summoner and the shadowcat).

[C E Dwyer]

wondering how viable it is to increase JJ's for just one mech.

This idea has been suggested before, over the years since the big JJ nerf.

P.G.I are allegedly not against poptarting, but they don't want it becoming the meta again, so they're not likely to tune up JJ's , which means only clan mechs above 55 tons will ever be practical Pop tarts due to the weight and crit slot benefits their tech receives.

P.G.I call this balancing the game..

[MechaBattler]

There's going to be a jump jet skill tree in the new system. So you might be able to get some of the old performance back. But you'll have to sacrifice other skills. So it's not really a buff for the Victor specifically. But who knows. It might help.

[Hit the Deck]

It's going to be "buffed" by making the missile tube counts able to launch at least 6 missiles at a time (for SRM-6s).

Edited by Hit the Deck, 08 February 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Hit the Deck, on 08 February 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

It's going to be "buffed" by making the missile tube counts able to launch at least 6 missiles at a time (for SRM-6s).

What a glorious day that will be when a Victor can actually Alpha. I think that fix would be a bigger deal to the Vic than more oomph in its jumping.

BTW, the few times this has come up devs have acknowledged the missile count issue, but have also said, that it just is not on the high priority end of things, so who knows if/when it will actually be fixed. BTW-II: They even acknowledged the same (though much less significantly so) issue with the Quickdraw's tube count and said that is on their radar as well.

[Coolant]

it's not a poor mech anymore...

[C E Dwyer]

Coolant, on 08 February 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

it's not a poor mech anymore...

It still relies on an XL be anything but A wider larger Zeus with worse hard points, and less ammo, unless you remove it's JJ's in which case you might as well play the Zeus.

To carry the XL well it needs ooomph of JJ's to spread damage better, night gyr's jump better and have a better alpha, and are far better poptarts, than the Victor ever was, so why P.G.I resist this bewilders me.

It does perform o.k if you want it to be something it's not supposed to be, which is a Zeus that looks like a Victor with worse tube count

[Hillslam]

Let me cram an AC20 in the Dragon Slayer since you took away the Gauss on a mech I paid real money for, and I'll drive the thing again.

[Gas Guzzler]

Cathy, on 08 February 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

It still relies on an XL be anything but A wider larger Zeus with worse hard points, and less ammo, unless you remove it's JJ's in which case you might as well play the Zeus.

To carry the XL well it needs ooomph of JJ's to spread damage better, night gyr's jump better and have a better alpha, and are far better poptarts, than the Victor ever was, so why P.G.I resist this bewilders me.

It does perform o.k if you want it to be something it's not supposed to be, which is a Zeus that looks like a Victor with worse tube count

Allegedly they are fixing the tube count. I have actual found the ER PPC/Gauss Dragon Slayer to be pretty solid in game..

Hillslam, on 08 February 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Let me cram an AC20 in the Dragon Slayer since you took away the Gauss on a mech I paid real money for, and I'll drive the thing again.

Still works pretty well with Gauss and 2 ER PPCs.

[Bishop Steiner]

after all the work to remove poptarting as the primary tactic in this game, and to reduce it mostly to Medium Mechs, we really don't need to reverse course. Only thing keeping the Night Gyr from getting out of hand, is that it's so slow and ponderous in flight that it takes a real skilled hand to poptart well in it.

[Averen]

JJs are never gonna come back. We can be happy PGi doesn't just preemptively amputates all victors arms for it's past transgressions^^'

[Steve Pryde]

Victor only needs the missile tube count adjusted. Jump jets needs in general a buff in trusting power and a nerf against the poptart "problem".

[Averen]

Steve Pryde, on 08 February 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

Victor only needs the missile tube count adjusted. Jump jets needs in general a buff in trusting power and a nerf against the poptart "problem".

longer than 3 seconds in the air = all aim screwed up until you land

All problems with jump sniping ever solved. Idk why PGI has so much trouble with jump sniping.

[Gas Guzzler]

Averen, on 08 February 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

longer than 3 seconds in the air = all aim screwed up until you land

All problems with jump sniping ever solved. Idk why PGI has so much trouble with jump sniping.

Jump sniping is in a good spot.

The only Jump Jets that REALLY suck are the 2 ton Class 1 JJs. You need 4 of them to actually be useful (8 tons!) but with the exception of the EXE, the HGN-733C, and the Heavy Metal, mechs can only use 3 of them. Personally, I think they should alter the slope of JJ performance, so 3 gets you what 4 gets you right now.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 February 2017 - 12:32 PM.

[Jeremiah Thoryn]

Bud Crue, on 08 February 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

What a glorious day that will be when a Victor can actually Alpha. I think that fix would be a bigger deal to the Vic than more oomph in its jumping.

BTW, the few times this has come up devs have acknowledged the missile count issue, but have also said, that it just is not on the high priority end of things, so who knows if/when it will actually be fixed. BTW-II: They even acknowledged the same (though much less significantly so) issue with the Quickdraw's tube count and said that is on their radar as well.

Yes I do believe that will make amends towards making the Victor not a completely horrible choice, I still think it needs something more than the ability to actually use its missile slots to make it viable. Actually lets use another word, competitive.. I want the Victor to be competitive. If it's not poptarting fine, but I really wish the mechs that exist currently in today's MWO were all competitive or at the very minimum viable. There are several that are not, but I chose to talk about the Victor, because for me it's an iconic mech that does not translate very well in MWO.

Bud Crue, on 08 February 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

A mech specific JJ quirk would be unprecedented. PGI, over the last year, has made it abundantly clear that they prefer broad based system wide buffs and nerfs to entire systems (see clan XL changes, see all weapons changes over the last year, etc.) rather than apply such quirks individually or with specificity. So assuming that is how they continue to do things, the question becomes would a buff to class II (or all) jump jets make "this poor mech viable again"?

Sure. Its "viable' now with the armor quirks it just received. Still middling to crap compared to other assaults, ...PGI views poptarting as some ultra game imbalancing plague and they will not let it live long even when it does occur (see recent nerfs to loyalty summoner and the shadowcat).

I agree with most of your post. I do not think that all jumpjets needed fixing per say. I do wish they were better sure, but in the current state of the game, its really only the assaults and to some extent lights that have terrible jj's imo.

I believe that if PGI wanted to curtail poptarting they simply would just make the aiming reticle shake the entire time during flight, but since they've not it is of my opinion that they condone poptarting to some extent.

I am still not sure why they nerfed the shadowcat; imo it's never been a great poptart. Yes it can do it, but there are far superior choices. The summoner I understand.

Edited by Jeremiah Thoryn, 08 February 2017 - 01:34 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 February 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

Allegedly they are fixing the tube count.

Yup.

Bud Crue, on 08 February 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

What a glorious day that will be when a Victor can actually Alpha. I think that fix would be a bigger deal to the Vic than more oomph in its jumping.

BTW, the few times this has come up devs have acknowledged the missile count issue, but have also said, that it just is not on the high priority end of things, so who knows if/when it will actually be fixed. BTW-II: They even acknowledged the same (though much less significantly so) issue with the Quickdraw's tube count and said that is on their radar as well.

Steve Pryde, on 08 February 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

Victor only needs the missile tube count adjusted. Jump jets needs in general a buff in trusting power and a nerf against the poptart "problem".

I hope they are in the process of fixing the tube counts..

Here's a quote from a dev:

Mark Nicholson, on 28 January 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

The Victor's missile tube deficiency is being addressed.