33 replies to this topic

[Vanibanez]

I'm sure this has been posted a million times before.....

People talk/complain about clan mechs being better than IS or the perks/nerfs that go into the chassis and now the new skill tree which I assume is meant to balance things a little. I am not sure how the battletech canon goes and how closely PGI follows it but I have noticed one big difference in the two mech groups. It's the XL....

Now I'm sure this has been covered before many times before I started playing but it would make sense to use XL in IS except for the much groaned about side torso death issue. The tonnage saved could help with more weapons and HS for IS, and less need to use slots for FF armor or ES structure. So if PGI can't just give the same option for IS XL as they do clan(no side torso death), how about just give a percentage of chance that a side torso loss could be death(say 25%)?

I've noticed myself that the extra weight of those standard engines would be nice to go into weapons of other things. Am I crazy to think of this? Would it even the playing field a little more? No longer requiring all these perks?

I'm not trying to troll, I'd just like some honest opinions/answers on it.........

[Gentleman Reaper]

isXL = cXL: No

Random chance to die on torso loss: HELL NO

Random chance already ruins UAC balance, we don't need that applying to engines too...

[Vanibanez]

I meant just a chance on the IS side, leave the clans alone. It's only because of the bad side torso death on IS XL's....

[El Bandito]

Make both sides unkillable on single XL ST loss, and give them different penalties. Voila, equal but different.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 February 2017 - 10:09 AM.

[Vanibanez]

El Bandito, on 05 February 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

Make both sides unkillable on single XL ST loss, and give them different penalties. Voila, equal but different.

I like it! Just wish it could happen. I have started playing IS recently and do enjoy them, but the xl engine would be a great improvement.

[Requiemking]

Vanibanez, on 05 February 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

I like it! Just wish it could happen. I have started playing IS recently and do enjoy them, but the xl engine would be a great improvement.

I would prefer this not to happen, seeing as there is a very good chance that the LFE is going to be added this summer, and doing this renders it completely pointless.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Remove ST death entirely.

Default is cXL. It gets no bonus nor penalty.
XL gets a small bonus relative to cXL, to compensate for the extra crit in each ST.
LFE gets a sizeable internal structure buff to all torsos.
STD engine gets at least a double bonus to that of the LFE, maybe even more.

[Tarl Cabot]

Requiemking, on 06 February 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

I would prefer this not to happen, seeing as there is a very good chance that the LFE is going to be added this summer, and doing this renders it completely pointless.

No it wouldn't, especially if the non-death penalties were less than isXL. The "Meta" IS mechs, a number already have a low engine cap and/or require that one extra ST slots for AC20 or 2xUAC5s that would not work with isXL but would w/LFE.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 06 February 2017 - 11:09 PM.

[Requiemking]

Tarl Cabot, on 06 February 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

No it wouldn't, especially if the non-death penalties were less than isXL. The "Meta" IS mechs, a number already have a low engine cap and/or require that one extra ST slots for AC20 or 2xUAC5s that would not work with isXL but would w/LFE.

Ok, so under this proposal, the LFE would basically be STD 2.0. Yeah, how about no. How about we leave ISXL as it should be, and implement LFE as it should be, and then leave it at that.

[Sjorpha]

Requiemking, on 06 February 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

Ok, so under this proposal, the LFE would basically be STD 2.0. Yeah, how about no. How about we leave ISXL as it should be, and implement LFE as it should be, and then leave it at that.

That leaves clan XL OP compared.to IS engines.

[Requiemking]

Sjorpha, on 06 February 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

That leaves clan XL OP compared.to IS engines.

And? The vast majority of Clan mechs are trash even compared to IS mechs because they are forced to pay for that advantage.

[Accused]

We need light XL's, not nerfing or buffing current engines.

[El Bandito]

Requiemking, on 06 February 2017 - 11:38 PM, said:

And? The vast majority of Clan mechs are trash even compared to IS mechs because they are forced to pay for that advantage.

IS side has far more trash than Clan mechs. Heck, even the Mist Lynx shines compared to IS lights such as Commando, Spider-5V, or even mediums such as Vindicator. Even the Ice Ferret is used in comp play.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 February 2017 - 01:21 AM.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

El Bandito, on 07 February 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

IS side has far more trash than Clan mechs. Heck, even the Mist Lynx shines compared to IS lights such as Commando, Spider-5V, or even mediums such as Vindicator. Even the Ice Ferret is used in comp play.

I still don't understand how the SDR-5V only has slightly better mobility than the SDR-5K whilst the 5K is getting all these firepower quirks like wtf I suppose 12 Jumpjets are OP

[El Bandito]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 07 February 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

I still don't understand how the SDR-5V only has slightly better mobility than the SDR-5K whilst the 5K is getting all these firepower quirks like wtf I suppose 12 Jumpjets are OP

Russ did say something about increasing hardpoints for 5V, but like all his previous comments, the date of that happening is not certain.

[Weepy Wanebow]

LFE doesn't really balance out against cXL. It still weighs a lot and in order for IS to get that weight savings, they have to go isXL which means instant death with ST loss. That shouldn't be the case in a game like this, regardless of what lore says or how the table top is set up. Now if they also introduced XL gyros, compact Gyros, small cockpits, and light FF armor, heavy FF armor, reflective armor, reactive armor, and maybe even composite, and endo-composite internal structures for IS mechs, then maybe we could talk about "keep engines what they are supposed to be". If MWO isn't going to take a lore type approach to restoring balance to start with then it shouldn't be used as justification for anything that is unbalanced and unfair between factions.

In the table top/Lore, eventually the IS start out pacing clans in innovation and new options. Clans still get some new options which are still really good and anything thy copy from the IS is slightly better then the IS original but over all IS still have a much wider array of options available to them. This is one of the things that makes IS competitive in table top/lore...because spoiler alert: the introduction of clans made the game so unbalanced that people just up and stopped playing it or refused to go past 3039. Buy 3068 (the start of the Jihad) clans and IS were fairly even (with just a slight advantage still going to the clans but far less so then ever before) and by the dawn of the early republic era, mixed tech was the norm for many IS factions....by the late republic era, mixed tech was the norm for everyone in the Inner Sphere, regardless of faction.

If PGI isn't going to allow mixed tech mechs and drop decks then they need to offer the IS more options to make up for the fact that every single option they have is heavier and bulkier then their clan counter parts (at the very least). LFE isn't an inferior choice when you can also pick small cockpit and XL gryo to save additional weight. I understand that MWO doesn't do standard/traditional gyro and cockpit but that doesn't mean that they couldn't figure something out that would work in the same basic way. I'm also a fan of reflective and reactive armor for IS because clan high alpha damage is off the charts with some mechs and way out of reach for the majority of IS mechs. Taking the steam out of some of those clan energy boats would be really nice as would adding some survivability to IS mechs that the game currently lacks.

[Mcgral18]

Requiemking, on 06 February 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

Ok, so under this proposal, the LFE would basically be STD 2.0. Yeah, how about no. How about we leave ISXL as it should be, and implement LFE as it should be, and then leave it at that.

Accused, on 07 February 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

We need light XL's, not nerfing or buffing current engines.

LegacyTech™ is something to avoid, not embrace


If you bring in the LFE without adjusting the STD, you may as well remove it fro the game
It would have a purpose


"BUT THE hGauss!"
Would need to be incredibly OP to consider gimping yourself with a STD

[a gaijin]

Been playing IS mechs since end of last month and will continue all this month.

What I've observed (well, refresher really since I used nothing but IS before Clan mech release in 2014) is some things that IS mechs can do that Clan mechs can't:

• upgrade/downgrade engine size for speed/more free weight as necessary.
  
• change out FF armor/Standard or Endo Internal Structure/Standard as required to gain either more free weight or item slots.
  
• LRMs are better cause they launch all at once versus the cool looking but inefficient "stream" that Clans shoot.
  
• Laser weapons though heavier and usually higher in slot "cost" are much better due to the very short burn duration, not to mention IS energy weapons burn cooler so I require less heatsinks than I would for a similar loadout on a Clan mech.
  
• All or almost all IS mechs have quirks that equalize or come to equalizing the "range advantage" of Clan weapon systems. With range modules added it's so close I find it's easy to "trick" Clan pilots in QP into thinking they're safe due to range and then unloading a surprising alpha strike into them. Oh it's fun
  
• swap out STD or XL engine if I want to fit more equipment. Works well on some mechs but not so much on others.

In short, IS mechs are pretty kick ***!!



And, the whole "CLam XL unfair!!!!!" argument is asinine. Just whiny people who want to whine. No offense intended to them though I know they'll take it anyway cause they just looooooove to whine!

But hey, IS is getting new tech this year to ....a-hem... "compensate" so, a very big " ***** You Very Much! " to all those whined for the last solid year about it. PGI apparently listened, to the chagrin of the stable and sane on the planet .

Gawdam stravag surats!

[MeiSooHaityu]

I'm not a fan of treating IS XL like clan XL.

Instead, I'd rather see...

IS XL Side torso loss results in delayed death. Lose a side torso, take continual CT internal damage until your mech detonates. It would allow for some additional time to do damage and go down fighting. Maybe a minute or so of delayed death on a healthy CT, but less so on a CT that has already suffered damage. Both side torso destruction still results in immediate death like the clan XL.

I still think I like that idea the best.

[Felicitatem Parco]

If adding the LFE is supposed to bring balance, then the LFE has to exhibit better performance than the clan XL because the LFE weighs more.