12 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

This is more of a question actually. But every thread title I make seems to be a question and I'm breaking the cycle.

There's a good size contingent that would prefer to buff the IS XL instead of trying to nerf the Clan XL.But what people are asking for is either an inferior survival mechanic for the side torso or more structure when equipping an XL.

I propose we specialize the engine. Make it 'the' premier engine in performance.

"But Mecha,it already offers 50% weight reduction! There's your performance!" - John Rando

Yeah, but so does the Clan XL, with less slots, and no side torso death.

I'm talking about performance increase outside of that. Here's where the question comes in. How much performance boost, and in what form, would it take for the side torso death to be worth it?

Performance ideas that we could pursue this through. It could be all, some, or just one.

Turn Rate
Acceleration/Deceleration
Torso twist speed
And Speed Tweak.

I feel like heat performance is too specific to energy boating.

***

Fupdup makes a good point.

In my opinion the standard engine screams it should be the toughest engine on the block. Straight forward approach to me is have it impart a structure bonus. How much is the question?

Edited by MechaBattler, 07 February 2017 - 01:11 PM.

[FupDup]

STD engines are even worse than IS XL engines. Don't forget about them.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Make the cXL the default for balance. No ST death at all, no bonuses, no penalties, just half the weight of a STD with 2 crits in each ST to take up a little extra space.

The XL then, since it loses an extra crit in each ST (which is a decisive size increase on account of preventing AC20s), needs to have some kind of benefit. A little extra agility like the OP proposes would not be horrible.

The LFE when it comes out has the same space as a cXL but a bunch of extra weight. Therefore, give it bonus internal structure health to all torso locations as compensation, making it a hybrid of tanky and light weight.

The STD engine then is left to be the super tanky option. You take it for one thing only: survival. Give it massive IS buffs to all torso locations. They need to be significant enough to make up for the loss in speed and/or firepower that other engines can provide.

[Mcgral18]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 07 February 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

Make the cXL the default for balance. No ST death at all, no bonuses, no penalties, just half the weight of a STD with 2 crits in each ST to take up a little extra space.

The XL then, since it loses an extra crit in each ST (which is a decisive size increase on account of preventing AC20s), needs to have some kind of benefit. A little extra agility like the OP proposes would not be horrible.

The LFE when it comes out has the same space as a cXL but a bunch of extra weight. Therefore, give it bonus internal structure health to all torso locations as compensation, making it a hybrid of tanky and light weight.

The STD engine then is left to be the super tanky option. You take it for one thing only: survival. Give it massive IS buffs to all torso locations. They need to be significant enough to make up for the loss in speed and/or firepower that other engines can provide.

I'd say the cXL should stay where it was pre-patch, with the 20% penalties

Then LFE has none (and arguably nothing else at all), isXL has other benefits, STD is ...doubled structure?
Or heat, agility


Enough buffs that a Kodiak would even consider taking a STD engine, because they directly compete with cXLs

Edited by Mcgral18, 07 February 2017 - 01:36 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I'd like to see STD engines impart structure bonuses to all 3 torso components and a twist speed bonus due to lower moment of inertia. Maybe bonus internal heatsinks to compensate for the weight.

As for IS XLs, I'd love to see a Titanfall-style "doomed" state on ST loss, where the mech loses torso structure over time. You will eventually die from ST loss (say within 1 minute), but not instantly, and you get no heat or speed penalty in the meantime. It would make an interesting and meaningful difference between IS and Clan XLs without one being necessarily better than the other.

[Baulven]

Two extra built in DHS. There it's balanced against clan XL. Because if you give it additional bonuses on top of tailored quirk trees and on top of things like RACs it is going to hit ludicrous speed.

I don't want to have to post a gift of "They'very gone to plaid!"

[Mcgral18]

Kaeb Odellas, on 07 February 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

You will eventually die from ST loss (say within 1 minute), but not instantly, and you get no heat or speed penalty in the meantime. It would make an interesting and meaningful difference between IS and Clan XLs without one being necessarily better than the other.

So, what would it get in return?


Half energy weapon cooldown when in the death spiral?
Because if it just dies, it is outright inferior to the one who doesn't die.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mcgral18, on 07 February 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

So, what would it get in return?


Half energy weapon cooldown when in the death spiral?
Because if it just dies, it is outright inferior to the one who doesn't die.

No heat or speed penalty seems like a decent tradeoff, all other things equal. You get 1 or 2 minutes of full engine performance with your half mech, hopefully driving doomed pilots to fight more aggressively Obviously you'd also need to address other imbalances in the tech bases.

[Dino Might]

If you want to utterly destroy lights beyond all hope, go ahead and make more assault ballerinas. Mobility on the whole should be nerfed across all other classes to be consistent with the nerf that lights have had (% decrease hits lights more than others). So, I do not agree that this idea would be preferable to others.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Dino Might, on 07 February 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

If you want to utterly destroy lights beyond all hope, go ahead and make more assault ballerinas. Mobility on the whole should be nerfed across all other classes to be consistent with the nerf that lights have had (% decrease hits lights more than others). So, I do not agree that this idea would be preferable to others.

You could make lights even faster and more maneuverable...

[MechaBattler]

Dino Might if we get the LFE, I think more assaults will go that route. A lot of builds for assaults already use standard engines. So the LFE offers a bit of both worlds without being a death trap. Though perhaps if standard engines get a big enough structure bonus, then it might still see life as it can make assaults even tankier.

On a more general . Another player, I can't remember the name of, he said he liked the idea of Clans being all around better and the IS having more options.

In a sense I like that idea. But those options have to be worth taking. There should be an upside. Like how IS lasers are cooler and shorter duration. Right now the Clan XL does everything equal to or better than the IS XL.

Edited by MechaBattler, 07 February 2017 - 02:27 PM.

[El Bandito]

MechaBattler, on 07 February 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

Dino Might if we get the LFE, I think more assaults will go that route. A lot of builds for assaults already use standard engines. So the LFE offers a bit of both worlds without being a death trap. Though perhaps if standard engines get a big enough structure bonus, then it might still see life as it can make assaults even tankier.

That all depends on the mech's max engine rating. A lot of IS mechs turn to Std engine because they have low engine rating. If mechs such as Mauler could have big engine rating then XL wouldn't be out of question.

[MechaBattler]

I feel like the Zeus would appreciate an LFE or just a tougher standard engine. Anything to make up for that rescale : /