6 replies to this topic

[ForceUser]

Lock a number of skillpoints to each weapon category.

That's pretty much it to be honest. This would be a universal thing across all mechs and is something that would be separate from any balancing measures in regards to adjusting for the strength of various different variants.

A practical example (numbers not final obviously)

91 total skill points.

Of that 91, have 10 (again numbers not final) hard locked to each of the three different weapon groups regardless of what hardpoints are on the mech.

So that means you can spend a max of 61 points in any of the skill trees that isn't one of the three weapon trees. You can still boat a specific weapon system but you then have 20 less points that is affecting your build.

Basically if you want to boat a single weapon it means you reduce your total 'usable' SP by 20 (or more if you increase the hard locked value)

This combined with having skills that are very valuable in non weapon trees (Radar derp, seismic, armor, etc.) means that those extra 20 or more SP can make a difference in the overall strength of the mech if it's built to make use of those extra hardpoints, thus theoretically encouraging build diversity. Boating will still exist as it exists in Lore, Table Top and stock builds, the point is not to remove it completely but to just reduce it's strength as overall boating is almost always naturally stronger. Any individual variants that are stronger or weaker naturally because of hardpoint locations etc. will still need to be balanced as normal. This is simply to help mitigate skill tree abuse in terms of boating.

[Horseman]

Simpler solution: Just scale the effectiveness of the skill by the number of matching hardpoints on the mech. The more weapons of the same type you can boat, the less of a buff they should get.

[Adamski]

Horseman, on 09 February 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Simpler solution: Just scale the effectiveness of the skill by the number of matching hardpoints on the mech. The more weapons of the same type you can boat, the less of a buff they should get.

That just penalizes mechs that dont have diverse hardpoints in the new system the same way that mechs with diverse hardpoints are penalized in the current system.

Better to stop pretending that there is a huge customizable skill tree, and put all weapons together.

So 1 skill reduces the cooldowns of all weapons, instead of having a skill for missiles, ballistics, lasers that all do the exact same thing.

Edited by Adamski, 09 February 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[ForceUser]

Horseman, on 09 February 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Simpler solution: Just scale the effectiveness of the skill by the number of matching hardpoints on the mech. The more weapons of the same type you can boat, the less of a buff they should get.

That does not account for hardpoint location and as with a similar nerf based on hardpoint numbers (Timber/Stormcrow energy nerf remember?) it's going to be easy to work around and effectively only end up hurting mechs with poor hardpoint locations.

[Horseman]

Adamski, on 09 February 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

That just penalizes mechs that dont have diverse hardpoints in the new system the same way that mechs with diverse hardpoints are penalized in the current system.

Just to be clear: I don't mean dividing the buff by the number of hardpoints outright, only dialing it down the more you can boat. it still wouldn't affect the high-alpha energy boat playstyle much.

Effectively, think of it this way: a Panther - the common dual-PPC build - would be able to get +30% or so net cooldown to its' main weapons from skills. Meanwhile, an energy boat like Hunchback 4P would cap around 20% because by design its' 9 energy hardpoints already provide it with a much higher alpha potential than the Panther.

[Appuagab]

During ED Public Test (RIP) someone was offering a good solution for modules balance: to scale effects inversely proportional to number of mounted weapons. Like +15% AC5 cooldown for one AC5, 12% for two, 10% for three and so one. But PGI never cares. :^\

[Horseman]

Appuagab, on 09 February 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

During ED Public Test (RIP) someone was offering a good solution for modules balance: to scale effects inversely proportional to number of mounted weapons. Like +15% AC5 cooldown for one AC5, 12% for two, 10% for three and so one. But PGI never cares. :^\

Yes, that could work too.