814 replies to this topic

[Kell Morgan]

Arkhangel, on 08 February 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Things that hurt Meta-mongers: No free mech operation/mobility/heat management/sensor improvements. Sure you can have heavy firepower, but you'll be screwed elsewhere.

thing that MIGHT help: picking one weapon category, which would also hamstring them if it's over-applied into. as above.

this skill tree promotes build variety BECAUSE you can quirk into different weapon systems.

Again they HAVE the cbills! That's all they do is earn excessive amounts of cbills. It does NOT promote variety because If I want to spec to something else now I have to pay a significant amount of cbills to do so.

It's not like they have to pay every time they drop. They will spec into 1 thing and stay there.

[Asher420]

Well. I can foresee my reason for playing other games already. This is very disappointing PGI. I get 1 mastered mech, and 2 weeks of grinding (continuously) to afford another. But I can't play video games all day see, I get to do stuff, and things! Really! This isn't my life, it's just a pastime. And it's not looking to be a fun one. What the hell guys!!!??? I already had issues with deciding which clan mech to get (cause I can't trial most of the mechs I want to try) and now I have the added issue of affording not only the mech ($$$), but any changes (engine, weapons, etc...$$$) and then skill tree ($$$). Yea, that can quickly be a whole lot more cbills than I earn. Gonna fix that? Mechwarriors need more $$$! When do we get a raise?

[Edward Hazen]

MechaBattler, on 08 February 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

This is going to be rough for new players who are not only at a disadvantage because they're only starting to collect equipment, but now they have to pay for basic skills. So they have to decide do I get that engine and PPC or do I skill up?

New player = unskilled pilot, this system makes sense to me. Also, remember that a maxed out skill tree = pilot skills + extra quirks + modules. Also, you may not remember, but a new pilot currently needs to unlock all basic skills as well as all elite skills before even on variant of that mech can be mastered.

Asher420, on 08 February 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

Well. I can foresee my reason for playing other games already. This is very disappointing PGI. I get 1 mastered mech, and 2 weeks of grinding (continuously) to afford another. But I can't play video games all day see, I get to do stuff, and things! Really! This isn't my life, it's just a pastime. And it's not looking to be a fun one. What the hell guys!!!??? I already had issues with deciding which clan mech to get (cause I can't trial most of the mechs I want to try) and now I have the added issue of affording not only the mech ($$$), but any changes (engine, weapons, etc...$$$) and then skill tree ($$$). Yea, that can quickly be a whole lot more cbills than I earn. Gonna fix that? Mechwarriors need more $$$! When do we get a raise?

I guess I should take a break from the forums as well as the game until this all gets finalized, because reading whining like this irritates me and stresses me out.

Edited by S0ulReapr, 08 February 2017 - 06:11 PM.

[MechaBattler]

S0ulReapr, on 08 February 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

New player = unskilled pilot, this system makes sense to me. Also, remember that a maxed out skill tree = pilot skills + extra quirks + modules. Also, you may not remember, but a new pilot currently needs to unlock all basic skills as well as all elite skills before even on variant of that mech can be mastered.



I guess I should take a break from the forums as well as the game until this all gets finalized, because reading whining like this irritates me and stresses me out.

Right, because skills somehow improve your range on your lasers. You were able to find the path of least air resistance with your skills?

It might be called skill tree. But half this stuff wouldn't make sense as a skill.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I can only say that the vast majority of changes are what I call spot-on.,

Especially the attention given to Crits and the age-old notion that a Mechwarrior Online PPC was a better crit seeker than a MWO LBX/10. I like it. It's so much more than a Skill Tree change.

This is awesome.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 February 2017 - 06:16 PM.

[Odanan]

Ravenlord, on 08 February 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Another concern is that this, instead of promoting build and mech diversity, is a big danger to exactly that because all those meta builds now get exactly the quirks they need and become even stronger than before, which puts you at an even bigger disadvantage if you don't want to use them. And it also makes unliked mech variants that had at least some quirks going for them before even more obsolete because people can just slap those quirks on the mechs that have the best weapon placements etc.

That's exactly my concern.

I liked a lot this system, except for the fact that mixed-weapons builds will be replaced (even more) by optimized boats with only one type of weapon. This is bad.

To fix that, PGI needs to either do massive changes to this Weapons' Skill Trees or just add the different types of armor (reflective, reactive, etc.) now that the technology will make a jump. The second alternative is HIGHLY recommended. (reflective armor, for instance, would shift the energy-boat meta to more mixed weapons platforms)

Edited by Odanan, 17 February 2017 - 04:17 PM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

I for one welcome our new lurm Atlas overlords.

[Q res]

S0ulReapr, on 08 February 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

New player = unskilled pilot, this system makes sense to me.

This is a really stupid way to treat new players in a Free 2 Play game if you actually want them to stick around and spend money. Just fyi.

This system is hot garbage, did PGI get bought up by a South Korean MMO company while I wasn't looking?

[50 50]

Ravenlord, on 08 February 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

We don't. It won't be enough, because most people don't buy every module for every mech but swap instead, some may even buy no modules at all or very few. Those will lose all the old skill tree gave them without the money to get it back in the new.

.... I ... um... what?

So your reason for complaining that you now have to spend some c-bills to get the effects of a module, or even a partial effect if you don't want to max out that node is that you were too cheap to buy the modules in the first place and therefore won't have as much sitting in the bank as players who did?

Did you also fail to notice that it is significantly cheaper to get the effects of a module than what we currently have?
Look at the Autocannon tree example.

If you completed this skill tree, you could have an Autocannon Velocity 5, Autocannon Cooldown AND Autocannon range 5 for 1,500,000 c-bills. (15 nodes at 100,000 c-bills)
That is the equivalent of 3 modules which would be 9,000,000 c-bills in the current system and we can't even get the velocity increase as a module!!

Not only that, but you still have 76 skill points left to distribute and pick up a bunch of extra skill nodes.
There are 20 skill nodes in the LBx tree, lets get all of those, why not, it'll be fun.
For 2,000,000 c-bills you can max out the tree and get Velocity 5, Cooldown 5, Range 5 AND Spread Reduction 5.
That's the equivalent of 4 additional modules.
That would be 12,000,000 c-bills under the current system we have........ and you couldn't even mount all of them at once!

Oh, and you still have another 56 skill points to play with.

Even if you decided to respec, it would still be cheaper.
It's harder to get the XP and that gets refunded.

.... and now for those who for some reason are scared about not being able to tinker with their mechs and change their loadouts.

Seriously, are you really that worried? If you are, don't waste points on weapon skills.
Otherwise.... yes.... go and get another variant that may be better suited for a particular style of play or get a duplicate, what ever tickles your fancy, then build them as you would like.

[Darkfieros]

You are giving Clan Mechs the same access to number of and %'s (just about) of quirks. If anyone thought this was unbalanced before, just wait. And it is massively overcomplicated for newbies to the game. I really don't know what the hell PGI is thinking if they thought there was trouble balancing before.

[Rebirthed]

This looks and feels like a terribly bad idea.

[aniviron]

Most of the skill tree seems set up to make sure you won't have to take stuff that's completely useless to you, which is good. (You can debate how useful reduced fall damage and increased speed while legged are, but they do at least do something).
But there's one big exception, which is the upper mech mobility tree. Even if you're in a mech that has no arm mounted weapons, you're forced to take arm speed upgrades to start the tree at all, and then to progress further you have to take even more arm speed upgrades. It works in reverse too for mechs that are all arm mounts, though admittedly you do gain a little something from a torso boost even with just arm weapons.

[Odanan]

Dee Eight, on 08 February 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

I am betting a lot of the 38 members and 87 guests currently viewing this thread, aren't actually playing on the PTS.

I'm downloading... and it will take a lot to finish it.

[Ravenlord]

Arkhangel, on 08 February 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

the only people this hurts are meta-mongers.

How could you possibly say that? The exact opposite is the case, all those Hunchback IICs, Summoners, etc etc will now have exactly the quirks that the need and be even stronger than they are now. The meta doesn't change just because of freely selectable quirks, if anything it will reinforce itself leaving those that don't want to comply at an even bigger disadvantage. It promotes boats of every variety instead of multi weapon class builds, because if you want to have a build with multiple weapon classes you will have to either play them in a noticeably less efficient version thatn their boating counterparts or give up other valuable skills the boaters can take, like increased armor/structure for example.

Edited by Ravenlord, 08 February 2017 - 07:14 PM.

[NRP]

So far from what I've read, these seem like good changes. I have something like 168 or so mechs, so I am glad module functionality will be baked into the mech. No more wondering which goddamn mech has the module I need.

The only concern I have is that Clan mechs might be fragile crap now, losing components if a nearby mech so much as farts in their general direction.

Edited by NRP, 08 February 2017 - 06:45 PM.

[Doktorbike]

50 50, on 08 February 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

.... I ... um... what?

So your reason for complaining that you now have to spend some c-bills to get the effects of a module, or even a partial effect if you don't want to max out that node is that you were too cheap to buy the modules in the first place and therefore won't have as much sitting in the bank as players who did?

Did you also fail to notice that it is significantly cheaper to get the effects of a module than what we currently have?
Look at the Autocannon tree example.

If you completed this skill tree, you could have an Autocannon Velocity 5, Autocannon Cooldown AND Autocannon range 5 for 1,500,000 c-bills. (15 nodes at 100,000 c-bills)
That is the equivalent of 3 modules which would be 9,000,000 c-bills in the current system and we can't even get the velocity increase as a module!!

Not only that, but you still have 76 skill points left to distribute and pick up a bunch of extra skill nodes.
There are 20 skill nodes in the LBx tree, lets get all of those, why not, it'll be fun.
For 2,000,000 c-bills you can max out the tree and get Velocity 5, Cooldown 5, Range 5 AND Spread Reduction 5.
That's the equivalent of 4 additional modules.
That would be 12,000,000 c-bills under the current system we have........ and you couldn't even mount all of them at once!

Oh, and you still have another 56 skill points to play with.

Even if you decided to respec, it would still be cheaper.
It's harder to get the XP and that gets refunded.

.... and now for those who for some reason are scared about not being able to tinker with their mechs and change their loadouts.

Seriously, are you really that worried? If you are, don't waste points on weapon skills.
Otherwise.... yes.... go and get another variant that may be better suited for a particular style of play or get a duplicate, what ever tickles your fancy, then build them as you would like.

Well said Sir!! Please folks give it a chance before hating it. Yes I'm one of those who will be rich in cbills & gxp so not really caring much about the cost, it seems comparable if not less when you consider that before this we had to buy 3 mechs, elite 3 mechs, spend GXP on modules & spend cbills on modules. I don't agree with the argument that it's too much for new players. A new player is NEW, are we to hand them everything on a plate so they can have it easy, no they should have to play the game enough to earn the right to be able to upgrade their mechs & stop expecting mama to place the food directly into their mouth for them.

[El Bandito]

Arkhangel, on 08 February 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

Most of them apparently don't know how to do basic math either, given my C.O.'s testing them, and everything he's found so far actually ends up better.

guess what, you have to earn your quirks and spend cash to modify your mech. deal with it. having these skills actually INCREASES build variety because it'll let people quirk a mech to a build it's NOT usually seen with.

the only people this hurts are meta-mongers.

Meta uses a lot of boated weapons. This skill tree favors boating.

[Morggo]

Okay, initial drop thoughts. Daaammmnnnn.... gonna be some rekt mechs out there. Can't get my head around the extra tankiness by Bushwacker has now, and still hits hard AND has all the goodies like seismic, derp.. hell even tossed adv. zoom on it.

I am so loving this so far. Will keep playing....

[Arkhangel]

El Bandito, on 08 February 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

Meta uses a lot of boated weapons. This skill tree favors boating.

not as much as you think, as you'd get hamstrung in other areas focusing in on firepower like that.

no longer can you be heavy firepower AND fast, AND tough. you'll have to choose.

[Dirty Swampfrog]

just a small question? Why does the PST take over an hour with a good internet to download?? No game has ever taken that long for me..