814 replies to this topic

[BrunoSSace]

Only probelm. 9 mill per respect and then you loss the money. Respect and you need to pay again. Its going to take me a long time to elite my mechs, pluss i love playing around with builds. This change will stop me respecting often and thats no fun. Dont get me wrong I love the grind but this is a little bit much. If we elite a mech it should be free for respects or at a heavily discounted rate. Apart from that one thing rest looks great. Give the team a high five from me.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

All this new stuff kinda seems even better than what I expected, and I was expecting big.

I really hope they can fit this into February patch.

[MechaBattler]

It needs more nodes worth taking. I feel like I can get most of what I want as long as I only boat one weapon type.

They need to address the fact boating is better with this skill tree. I dunno how. But somethings gotta change. Almost feel like weapon skills should be separate from the rest with their own pool of points.

[JuIius]

No more testing different Builds, because its too expensive.
Find something you like...
Then get some awesome Balancing from PGI, and you have to pay for respec... hope you enjoy

[Ravenlord]

Arkhangel, on 08 February 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

not as much as you think, as you'd get hamstrung in other areas focusing in on firepower like that.

no longer can you be heavy firepower AND fast, AND tough. you'll have to choose.

Yeah, and even less can you be those things while using multiple weapon classes, that's exactly the point. No matter how you turn it, you are better off using a boat. Mechs/variants that HAVE to use different weapons because they only have a limited number of hardpoints which are of multiple classes are hit especially hard by this (thinking mechs like Dragon for example).

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a huge amount of work and thought has gone into this and I respect that, but I don't think implementing it like it is will do the game any good.

Edited by Ravenlord, 08 February 2017 - 07:32 PM.

[Darkfieros]

1. This game is not newb friendly now...much less after this. 2. The amount of money to grind out per mech will be ridiculous now. 3. The Quirkening this will bring about is going to be disgustingly in favor of clans.

[snipercam7]

Having browsed the PTR, and considering myself a fairly bad player (although quite new, in terms of games played), I honestly don't see myself buying skills for a long time until I've bought far more mechs etc..

[MovinTarget]

I would hope that if PGI tweaks the skill trees, you get refunded in full b/c of *their* change.

Been dorking around on the PTS...

Basically you can skill out your mech to be a jack of all trades or a specialist in one type of weapon... more or less.

The overall bonuses are kinda minor for what they are costing you... I would rather see it tweaked so that the lower unlocks give you a little bit more "oomph" and then the higher ones give less (i.e. you get 80% of your speed tweak from the first 3 unlocks and 20% from the last) to encourage diversity rather than specialization... but I'm sure those that want a specialist mech would wnat the opposite so that if they max a tree it gives some great bonus.

[El Bandito]

So PGI is giving % armor and internal bonuses on top of base durability quirks, which means everyone is getting tougher, even including Clan mechs, but stuck the +10 magazine capacity all the way behind Operations tree? And missiles are not even getting any ammo bonus from magazine skill, despite they spread the damage a lot. Ammo is gonna be more of an issue if this change goes through, even more so in CW.

WTF, PGI? Why not give added ammo to each type of weapons respective tree?

Arkhangel, on 08 February 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

not as much as you think, as you'd get hamstrung in other areas focusing in on firepower like that.

no longer can you be heavy firepower AND fast, AND tough. you'll have to choose.

No, boats are gonna benefit more, no matter how you look at it.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 February 2017 - 07:38 PM.

[process]

I like the nuanced upgrade system over the current one, but I am very concerned that the pay structure will stifle customization and discourage people from buying new mechs.

[Tremendous Upside]

Racerxintegra2k, on 08 February 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

This is the best thing that could have happened to me. I really needed to cut back on the amount of time i spend on this game.

I scrolled right to the part where it will cost 9.1million cbills to master a mech don't really care to read anything else, don't really have a desire to continue the grind.

Heh... if they're seriously expecting people like me (who've dropped absurd amounts of cash into this game already) to grind out over 9m c-bills per mech just to get them to the equivalent of being mastered again? When I've spent MC to have this done already on the 100+ mechs I already have? Good luck with the new system. I'm punching out. I have ZERO interest in having to re-grind c-bills to unlock mech skills on mechs I've already got beyond "elite" in the current skill system. Yeah, yeah - it's just a first test/iteration... the intent on putting MASSIVE new c-bill sinks into the economy is obvious.

Can you imagine if Blizzard told everyone in World of Warcraft that they were wiping everyone's levels and gold back to zero - and then refunding half the XP necessary to get their characters back to where they were? I'm sure that'd work out great for them

Edited by Tremendous Upside, 08 February 2017 - 07:38 PM.

[Rhialto]

DEFENSIVE: why force Fall Damage? Please change that.
MECH OPERATIONS: why force Hill Climb to access higher tier skills? Please change that.

For speedier skills selection and respec, would it be possible to have it works like this:

You click the first cell and select XP or GXP and as long as you hold down the button you can move over other adjacent cells you want to use. This would make skill selection much faster. Once you reached bottom you may have to reclick one at top and do the same if a branch was not accessible.

On a slightly different topic, can you get rid of the boring slow animation of stats panel when we mouse over a mech in mech selection screen? Sometimes I'm looking to find where a mounted item is and I must look at many mechs and this animation makes this task a pain. Just make the window pop instantly please.

Same for tile animation for mech with bonus, it's slow. You can make it spin twice current speed.

Edited by Rhialto, 08 February 2017 - 07:45 PM.

[DAYLEET]

9.1millions cbills to master one mech?

Really? Like, really really? so if i wanted to Master my mechs it would cost me 1billion 365millions Cbills? lul? Well the days where you could buy your weapons and engine and sometimes your mech with cbills are over for everyone but the most hardcore guy who plays 12hours a days since 2012.. Lets get rid of cbills entirely and only have MC since cbill spending isnt an option anympre.

Now, i understand that a new system like that need a progression to go with it so we can play with it. But since we ALWAYS are buying new mech(at least that's how you designed your game) we dont really need to fkin progress from scratch on what we already own.

I also understand im not going to want to master all one hundred and fifty of my mech in one night. but the message is clear and the damage is done. Pretty depressing to have the game tell you, "hey, your next 6 years will be trying to bring up to pace what you already brought up to pace the last 3 years." should i never buy new mech again and grind those i own already or should i delete my old mech and only get new ones that ill understand why i need to grind them.

Im sure someone will point out that it's work in progress and subject to change. Maybe he can help me look for my faith on that. I dropped it on Earth, don't know when, so it could be anywhere. One thing for sure, if people dont speak out about it we have no hope.

[Morggo]

I'm reading all responses to see it from multiple viewpoints.... but one thing I am really struggling with is the complaints that this is forcing mechs to go the jack of all trades route OR a specialist route... um... in the skill tree type games I play that's sorta the point and how they work. You can't really have the ezy button super everything. I like that now... I don't know if the mech I am facing is extra tanky but lower on damage output... or if it's glass but going to light me up if I'm not careful. Actually starts turning this into something you have to apply a bit of tactical sense to as I can see it so far. But, could be wrong... see as I keep on PTS this week.

One thing I like so far... taking a recent drop as example.
- Run match.
- Finish match, earned ~120K
- Realized didn't need so much heat management (mainly ballistic)
- Removed Heat Containment 3 since it was not needed
- Saw it refunded 1500XP, charged me 1500XP.. net 0 XP cost
- Cost me the earnings from a single match were I tested the build in the first place.

All in all, I'm okay with the way that plays out. I can tweak and tune for the cost of playing matches.

[Edward Hazen]

MechaBattler, on 08 February 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Right, because skills somehow improve your range on your lasers. You were able to find the path of least air resistance with your skills?

It might be called skill tree. But half this stuff wouldn't make sense as a skill.

I am bored of this argument, so I am done with the game and forums until the final skill system is in game.

[Sereglach]

Well, this feedback is quick and I don't even need to log into the PTS to give it. I'm placing it in the announcement thread and in the feedback section, just to be thorough.

1. The costs are absolutely absurd. Only the people with lots of time on their hands and who've spent the absurd amounts of money to put modules on all of their mechs will even potentially break even with this. All of the rest of us are screwed; and that's a lot of veteran players that you've just junk-punted, PGI.

2. The "New Player Experience" just became the "New Player Hell". Modules were a long-away afterthought for new players, but now you've baked a c-bill cost of a mech with unique modues and kitting it out into attempting to grind an individual mech. You've exponentially increased the gap between thoroughly established players and new players.

Off of those two points alone, if this system makes it to live then you've just put the last bullet into your foot . . . only instead this time your foot was stuck in your mouth and that bullet just continued straight into your head. This level of a grind for the game is utter suicide. You will NOT recover from that, period. If this goes live as-is you can expect to lose a LOT of players, new and old.

If you don't believe me, I think Star Wars Galaxies would like to have a word with you from the video-game afterlife. They pulled a very similar move with character-building and grinds and lost the majority of their player base in less than 2 months. I should know, I was one of the people who left in that exodus and watched a game I immensely enjoyed die a quick and painful death.

Now, moving on to other points:

3. The hex-comb pattern on the skill-trees is cute, but annoying. Just put in a few straight-shot nodes that go down the line and allow people to specialize how they wish. Otherwise everyone is forced to become a "jack of all trades" for the sake of trying to get to a few skills that they actually want. If necessary for the "obvious winners" then force a certain amount of point investment into the tree before tiers of nodes open up. That at least still allows people to specialize as they see fit, they just might need to buy more enhanced sensor range before they can get to ECM upgrades.

4. Speaking of ECM, you had the PERFECT fix for ECM on the InfoTech PTS runs and you instead change it out for another pointless range reduction?! How about making ECM function the way its supposed to, like you had it functioning when you first tried to implement InfoTech. Then you wouldn't need to constantly do arbitrary things like nerf the range (which isn't really a nerf, because the only person the ECM mech really and truly cares about giving the "Magic Jesus Box" to is themselves).

5. Component health improvements actually seem like they're possibly a good thing. I just find it hilarious that you're finally acknowledging a problem the player base has been pointing out for YEARS, that "crit-seeking" weapons were not an adequate balancing mechanism for a weapon system when the whole crit system is inherently broken.

6. No improvements for Flamers, TAG, or MG's . . . so much for specialists. So a Firestarter won't be about Flamers, the Ember won't be about Flamers and MG's, the Arrow won't be about MG's, A Raven 3L can specialize in NARC but not TAG, etc.? This is just another kick in the junk.

7. Speaking of Flamers, did you think I could go with leaving feedback and not mention my beloved Flamer? The poor thing is still in a wretched state, you had the perfect opportunity to fix it AND give it the ability to be improved with nodes, but instead it's blatantly ignored. Seriously, fix this weapon system: Get rid of all of the convoluted mechanics, go to fixed and flat values that align with the rest of the game (1.0 DPS, 1.0 HPS, 2.0 Heat DPS is a nice starting point) and you can even give it nodes to increase heat damage output, damage output (since there's no cooldown), and range.

8. If the baked-in mobility quirks aren't removed from ALL mechs by the time this goes live then this whole PTS is a joke. You've already got it hard-baked into most assaults and heavies to be as twinkle-toes as mediums or even some lights. You've got to kill the absurd agility that you're giving to mechs. It's just one of the many reasons that lights are becoming less and less popular.

9. In correlation to 8, if it's needed then remove agility attributes from the engine and make them inherent properties of mechs. If you've got one or two assaults that are supposed to be agile (the Victor comes to mind) then make them inherently more agile as a fixed property . . . but don't quirk the hell out of everything AND tie base agility to engines. People might not be quite so concerned about the engine sizes in their mech if they know the torso-twist, turn rate, and arm movements are fixed to the mech and not the engine. It also gives you another balancing point for mech.

10. All mechs have the same tree? What happened to every mech being unique, as was presented at Mech-Con? Seriously? This is a joke, right? Because, it feels like a joke.

Edited by Sereglach, 08 February 2017 - 07:53 PM.

[BMKA]

DeRazer, on 08 February 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

The price in CBills is way out of whack. We've gone from costing NOTHING to improve your mech to 9 million.

If you mean buying 3 variants of the same mech, spent cbills to made them comfortable to play = Nothing? I cant see your point.

"buying 3 jenners cost approx 9m
buying 3 Kit-foxs cost approx 18m"

Just saying

[Rhialto]

On my TOP-DOG there is no Skill Compatibility Alert for MECH OPERATIONS because of Magazine Capacity and all hard points are Energy!

Add a Select All button for even quicker skills selection. Could be handy for some trees.

[DAYLEET]

All the mandatory perks (seism/radar dep/coolrun/heat contain)are blocked after, still useless perks like speed retention, hill climb, sensor range, target retention. Is this the "specialisation" i keep hearing about?

Edited by DAYLEET, 08 February 2017 - 09:10 PM.

[El Bandito]

+15% armor hardening on base 60 leg armor should be 9, not 7-8, as shown in mechlab, PGI. Get your math right. Elementary level math, PGI.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 February 2017 - 08:10 PM.