Multiple of the same mech don't share,exp. Where did you read that? that would imply that they did?
I didn't mean from the changes going forward. I meant if you have two of the same mech currently that is a mastered variant then you have to split that when it transfers to the new skill tree.
A mastered variant now would be 57k of xp and you could have multiple mechs with different builds all mastered. But in the new skill tree that 57k would need to be split by each mech you have of that variant.
For example I've two CN9A's which are both mastered with different builds but new skill tree they need to split the xp between each of them.
It's 9.1M to upgrade one mech, but u save on not having to basic two other mech variants. How many people actually play all variants of a single chassis?
The game actually has more incentive for me to play. I found that a lot of my previously mastered mechs were mothballed as I tried the mech of the month. Now there is a reason for me to take them out.
I concur that most people buy a few modules and swop them Round. But modules cost a lot. Radar Derp cost 6M. Now u get this and more for 2M and a bit more permanent.
So yes, u may have seem to have to spend a bit more, but on the balance its fine. I like the chance to truly customize. And the limitation to 91 modules means u have to make decisions and it's no longer pure vanilla throughout.
Played in PTS and looking forward to actual implementation
That is if unless u are a poke mech collector that needs to have all mastered. Good luck to u then.
Honestly, when I first started reading about the skill tree changes, I was apprehensive. The C-bill cost of 'leveling' up the mech seemed absurd to me.. But as I kept reading, and found out that the modules were basically going away... And suddenly the 9mil Cbills to fully upgrade a mech isn't so bad, considering 2 weapon modules at 3mil a pop, plus 2 or more mech modules.
I like that we can sit and pick and choose weapons to buff, and how to buff them. Being able to finally have heat reducing 'modules' will be awesome. The skill tree is kinda annoyingly laid out, but I can deal with it, and there will certainly be refinements in the future.
I don't want to throw the time at downloading 15gb of data to try the PTS... but, it doesn't sound like it's the radical change most people seem to think it is... It costs about the same to fully level up a mech, and it doesn't really allow for performance above and beyond the original skill tree + modules. It just gives you the ability to tailor a mech to a specific play style a bit more than before, which will be great for all those wonky mechs I love to pilot. I love you Heavy Metal <3
LocationEvery world has a South Bay. That's where I am.
Posted 09 February 2017 - 03:15 PM
As one of the previously mentioned long-time players, and as a player who hates making people wait in group queue I have at least half a dozen each of radar derp, seismic, target decay, and dozens of dozens of weapon modules, I will be getting back a boatload of cash.
What will I do with this cash? Buy duplicates of WHK-B, BNC-3E, and maybe a few other mechs where I will have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of HXP and kit them all out with different load out options.
Oh PGI! You guys never stop disappoint me for many years already, since the days of first introduction of fantasy-style-ECM-mechanics (which caused the first terrific sh*tstorm on the forum in the history of MWO).
At first I was truly intrigued by the announcement, but the more I read, the more I got my suspicions confirmed. The so-called game-designers from PGI just can't resist a temptation to shoot themselves in the knee again (and again). And again (it's addictive).
Goals of Skill Tree revamp as PGI sees them:
Spoiler
Primary:
Don't ever overwork - CHECK!
Don't ever listen to the angry mob on the forum - IN PROGRESS SINCE 2012!
Secondary:
Swap primitive, illogical and poorly designed (i.e. 5 tiers of Weapon modules) skill-tree system for awfully designed, overcomplicated and even more illogical fantasy-style talents system - CHECK!
Provide ridiculous over9000frilled UI without templates functionality (it's a torture and waste of time to configure 2 Mechs. That idiotic zooming an scrolling is very uncomfortable. What is the purpose of those graphs? New skills tree UI is too complicated for what it provides. Stop hiring interns and recruit at least one professional UI developer for your UI department already.) - DOUBLE F*CKING CHECK!
Put as less sense behind new feature as possible while making it look as grand as it will never be - CHECK!
Reduce novice players base by making learning curve more steep and time consuming - CHECK!
Make C-Bills grid more stupid, more time-consuming and less rewarding (in order to push players to spend cash, lol) - CHECK!
Punish players for experimentations with new builds (it's too expensive for a casual player in current redaction, hence one must invest more money/time into the game just to be able to... grind more effectively) - CHECK!
Force meta-builds and no-brainers copy-past builds - CHECK!
For flexible omni-pods system into rigid builds system - CHECK!
Make Clan-Tech players suffer (changed your fancy omnipods? Pay for weapons skills respec!) - CHECK!
Shift the blame for lame balance from game-designers to individually bad Mech-builds chosen - CHECK!
Inspirational sneak peaks:
Russ to himself: "I think we didn't force boating well enough before, let's force it twice hard from now."
Russ to PGI's marketing department: "LMAO dudes, those stupid MW fans have bought useless pixels worth millions bucks, some have hundreds dusty Mechs in their hangars by now, any ideas how to milk them one more time somehow without much trouble for new content?"
Paul to Russ: "You know pal, silence fiction sucks and rational thinking sucks too, so f*ck logic, let's just do Mech-magic, colored fantasy-beams and JRPG with giant robots in love."
Russ to Paul: "Any ideas when flamers will become useful? Maybe we should boost them in the skill tree?"
Overall impression after some time spent on PTS:
Most awful piece of PGI's UI design so far. Even first redaction of Mechlab looked as a solid professionally done UI project comparing to that s***t.
Those who designed Skills Sub-Trees either don't play their own f*cking game or scoff at players intentionally and sadistically.
Damage numbers speaking, the difference between what I played year ago and now is not that great. I mean that bonuses from focused skills specialty don't look critical to me, I doubt they will make very big difference. Though some rare boat-builds will shine for sure. Almost as they did before or maybe a bit more. All hail your old LPL overlords. It was tempting to build some IS AC20 ultra-boat but I didn't want to waste more time. Maybe later.
It looks like the major (hidden?) nerf will happen to speed and mobility.
Fully specked ECM laz0r-pokers will be even greater pain in a** than before.
I wonder how already mastered Mechs and modules bought will be compensated - it makes the difference for me.
Clansmen will have to respect some weapons skill-nodes every time they swap omnipods on their favorite chassis. That's just plain ridiculous and prohibitive.
P.S.
Actually, after investing so much time/resources into one Mech configuration anyone would surely love to see one's Mech personality configured too - where are those good/evil allegiances from classic RPGs? I want my Executioner Alt. D to be Chaotic Neutral character who speaks roughly and hoarsely with NPCs when selling loot from that epic Luthien raid-dungeon. Someone tell that to magic fairy Paul, he would love the idea.
P.P.S.
Sorry for possible typos and mistakes, I'm half-asleep.
Edited by Featherwood, 09 February 2017 - 03:27 PM.
SuperFunkTron, on 09 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:
We are coming up to a point in this game's life where a large group will be made upset regardless of what happens. A massive change on the scale of what this PTS proposes will definitely piss off a lot of people, especially since there has been so much invested into the old system. The only thing we can hope is that if they proceed with some variant of the new PTS, that it will be more of a difficult adjustment rather than a step backward in terms of improving the game. Objectively speaking, both Battletech and MWO are complicated games. Adding more depth through the skill trees does increase the time it takes to learn, but at some level provides some direction by giving new players an idea of how to develop a mech from stock into something more specialized over time. After having spent as much time as I have in MWO over the last few years, a big change will sting for sure, but knowing that this system provides depth and not only creates roles, but provides them with purpose, is enough for me to cut my "lost elites" and explore this new system. One point that I haven't seen yet is that they lack a video tutorial explaining the system. If they implement that at the time they add Customization trees to the game, that will greatly reduce the number of bad investments and choices players make while trying to figure out how the system works. I'm convinced that in the next 6 months, we'll be looking at a very different, and hopefully improved game with this being the next brick after FP 4.1.
The problem is, instead of promoting roles there will be a few "must have" skills like survivability and such and the rest will probably go into weapons. This is beause of the nature of PUG games which make up the majority of games played (little to none coordination) and due to inherent design decisions/flaws of the game like really small maps.
For a really fast small mech with maxed out sensor stuff and such that sacrifices armor and firepower for it to be really a viable choice there would first and foremost need to be bigger maps where you don't stumble upon the enemy in the first minute, whether you are looking for them or not. Polar is the closest map we have to something like this and NARCers and scouts can really shine there. And people hate it for it.
WVAnonymous, on 09 February 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:
As one of the previously mentioned long-time players, and as a player who hates making people wait in group queue I have at least half a dozen each of radar derp, seismic, target decay, and dozens of dozens of weapon modules, I will be getting back a boatload of cash.
What will I do with this cash? Buy duplicates of WHK-B, BNC-3E, and maybe a few other mechs where I will have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of HXP and kit them all out with different load out options.
But if I were new to the game, I would rage quit.
Duh. You will need a lot of C-Bills to buy skills for the mechs you want to play, unless you want to ignore them all together..
Using the max 91 skills on a mech requires 9.1 million C-Bills.
If you were new to the game you'd likely like this change.
If you have only about half a dozen of different expensive modules then obviously that's not a lot.
Duh. You will need a lot of C-Bills to buy skills for the mechs you want to play. Using the max 91 skills on a mech requires 9.1 million C-Bills.
PGI gave players a bunch of GXP for the PTS to test their new skill tree. But unless you actually have historical XP you can't unlock anything, or at least not a reasonable number of nodes to be worthwhile.
Probably Not, on 09 February 2017 - 01:33 PM, said:
I'm still really confused by the lack of Flamer, MG and TAG consideration at all in the skilltrees. Is this PGI admitting that they've given up on these weapon systems and we should too? I'm sure as hell not going to pony up for, say, an Arrow when there's no skill tree support for the MG.
MGs only had range modules previously. There was no skill tree bonus applicable to them. Did the flamer even have that ? Why spend 3 million to extend flamer range NINE meters ?! TAG's are lasers...they fall under a mech's energy/laser range quirks already.
LocationAt home, at work, or on the stage... mostly
Posted 09 February 2017 - 03:52 PM
Kael Posavatz, on 09 February 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:
So...
PGI gave players a bunch of GXP for the PTS to test their new skill tree. But unless you actually have historical XP you can't unlock anything, or at least not a reasonable number of nodes to be worthwhile.
Not so. You have the option of unlocking with either XP or GXP, depending on which side of the node you click - left side GXP, right side XP.
Kael Posavatz, on 09 February 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:
So...
PGI gave players a bunch of GXP for the PTS to test their new skill tree. But unless you actually have historical XP you can't unlock anything, or at least not a reasonable number of nodes to be worthwhile.
The PTS takes a mirror image from your live server account. What you have live, you have on the PTS when you log into it. Thus if like me... you have sixty million cbills over and above the 300 million of modules, and the two hundred and ninety five THOUSAND GXP, plus all the mechs with a quarter million xp on them (like my ARC-5Ws, and my KDK-3s).... there's plenty to work with.
So what your trying to say is you are gonna nerf clan into uselessness.... guess i need to dust of the old 500 year old atlas and leave the brand new dire wolf in the garage because 500 years of research and development has somehow made that mech almost useless compared to a 500 year old piece of junk. You guys should tell the modern military this is how it works so then can stop spending all that money on things like aircraft carriers and and jets and rifles because longbows and swords would be SOOOO much cheaper.
Probably Not, on 09 February 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:
I...
What?
(On a side note: I think this Clanner basically just let it slip that he thinks he's entitled to roflstomp the IS because muh tech superiority. Guess all us Spheroids are just here to give him something to shoot. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )
No but if you want to equalize the different tech then F*** EQUALIZE IT! Don't go back and forth with the nerf hammer untill BOTH techs are useless. That's what they have been doing for 3 years.
PS: if you knew the lore you would know the average IS mech was about 500 years old because development just stoped. Whereas when clans left the inner sphere they continued development. Thats why the where so like WTF when they cam back because they assumed it would be like If the modern US navy decided to go to war with the British Navy of the 1500's era. Who would win that battle? Think about it.
About diversity vs boating, and how new skill tree is in favor for boating.
What if top-level nodes in the skill branch would have increased cost? So you have to decide - take this node to get full benefit of my main weapon; or i can take few low-level nodes in other branch, boosting my secondary weapons more. (it is not about increased cost, but increased node weight for limit)
Sort of low lvl nodes count as one, mid as two, top as three.
This way, diverse loadouts don't suffer from node limit. And it adds more fun to making decisions.
Edited by Sigmar Sich, 09 February 2017 - 04:40 PM.
OK I am finally weighing in on this new skill tree.
When I first saw this previewed at MechCon I was pretty excited for it. Now, not so much and here is why.
1st - It's a bug so I am sure it will get fixed, but many of my mechs that have hundreds of thousands of mech XP on them after mastering on the live client are showing zero historic XP on the PTS.
2nd - I have a mech that I have mastered and kitted out with modules on the live client that has about 21,000 mech XP left over. In the PTS that mech XP once converted is not enough SP to fully kit out the mech in the same fashion that I have already worked to in the live client. This can not be right.
3rd - So many skills and module replacements that I don't want but have to purchase to get to the skills and modules I do want. Forcing me to spend SP, GXP, cbills and more on items i do not want is not doing a very good job of retaining my desire for this new system to be put into place.
2º-Skills divisions should be by the names that are in the most click buttons but easier
3º- Why 91 ??? Because this is just a new version of quirks.
4º- "INFOTECH" does not look better as modules, because tactically not everyone will use if they spend on weapons if there is this advantage all good otherwise and very strange should be divided. For example of this skill ones are for use of other AC Energy for missiles. Seismic and Radar Deprivation the latter there has to be advantage if this does not serve.
5º-Use fixed Quirks because the chassis of the Mech are so and only way of this result because only then the variants are for something.
Last. The values are not bad but for a player who enters the game and very difficult to do so.
So basically an entirely new, needlessly complicated dynamic replacing a system that wasn't broken in the first place. This is going to be sooooooooooooo broken after the patch. And better prepare for the salt mines to go into overtime!
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BLOOD WOLF, on 09 February 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:
