33 replies to this topic

[Vxheous]

Having this web of skills all tied together forces us to have to buy nodes that are not useful just to get useful nodes. Would make more sense especially for things like radar dep/seismic etc to just have a linear 1->2->3->4->5 without needing to grab waste nodes

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Please do this pgi.

[Vizius]

If they did this how would they make you spend points/cbills on skills you don't want?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Vizius, on 08 February 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

If they did this how would they make you spend points/cbills on skills you don't want?

Well, ya got me there.

[Kuaron]

LRM range, velocity, shock absorption, hill climb...
Skills that round up an LRM or mobility skilled Mech but noone would take if they had the choice.

PGI made the right decision here.
Now, they need to do something against boating, but this is topic of another thread.

[Insufferable Smartypants]

Skills should be linear. It makes no sense to force me to take radar derp when all I want is to increase my own sensor range. The idiot that came up with this system should be fired.

Assuming this goes live, I'll be playing this game for free until I get bored with it. No more money for you, PGI!

[AlphaPrime42]

Some of the trees seem a little unfair in their compromises. Not a lot people are gonna want to have to go through fall damage or speed retention to get to the benefits of heat containment or cool run considering they were so easy to get to before hand. Good thing about access to this test build right now is that you have time still to work theses issues out.

[Riitters]

Bad idea. You want more Summoners that purely take PPC Velocity/CD/Heat, Armor / Structure, JJ Boost etc with no penalties? The entire point of this system is to give players some general choice without reinforcing specific playstyles.
Nerfing the availability of cool run and heat containment if you want pulse and standard laser duration and range? Fine by me.
You people aren't losing anything that anyone else isn't, and bad mechs will still be keeping some quirks or adjustment of point #'s.

[MechaBattler]

They should just get rid of the bad ones and reduce the points accordingly. At the end of the day it's the same thing though.

[Exard3k]

This would result in max skill points being reduced as you can then build potentially more powerful mechs than you should be. Consequences, balance...and so. You want that too?

Edited by Exard3k, 08 February 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[762 NATO]

Yes, I do want min/maxing. Not min/maxing is a waste of time and energy. Did I try too hard for you? Am I the special snowflake because I view this as a competition or are you the snowflake for wanting to play the game your way? I dont know.

[HassonAssassin]

Riitters, on 08 February 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

Bad idea. You want more Summoners that purely take PPC Velocity/CD/Heat, Armor / Structure, JJ Boost etc with no penalties? The entire point of this system is to give players some general choice without reinforcing specific playstyles.
Nerfing the availability of cool run and heat containment if you want pulse and standard laser duration and range? Fine by me.
You people aren't losing anything that anyone else isn't, and bad mechs will still be keeping some quirks or adjustment of point #'s.

Okay, so you may not have seen what the skill tree look like just yet Ritters. You aren't nerfing availability for laser anything, The weapons trees are surprisingly linear, which is great. However, the utilities that were easily available for 750/1000 XP/GXP are now slammed behind Hill climb.. and speed retention, which are far from the cooling system or aspect of a mech (Given in most titles and lore, a Mech could carry coolant pods by default and always have a reserve, leaving cooling and heat management more of it's own system) The issue is not giving us the players the freedom we want to make the decisions we want. Either we get more points to use (For more that three weapons and defense and utility, which we could do much easier before) or the skill tree gets broken up into more simple groups to pick and choose what modifications we want like we used to be able to with the Module system.

Edited by HassonAssassin, 08 February 2017 - 07:33 PM.

[Exard3k]

762 NATO, on 08 February 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

Yes, I do want min/maxing. Not min/maxing is a waste of time and energy. Did I try too hard for you? Am I the special snowflake because I view this as a competition or are you the snowflake for wanting to play the game your way? I dont know.

It's not about min/maxing, its about how much benefit you gain from the skill tree in general. Thats the baseline for balancing the tree. And these "not so useful skills" are a free benefit for you. If these are gone from the tree, you wont get the free SP to invest in other "good" nodes, they are just subtracted from the max SP to ensure balance. This would make the tree more boring and less diversified.

762 NATO, on 08 February 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

Not min/maxing is a waste of time and energy.

Some say playing MWO is about the same. Everyone has it's perspectives about life and values.

Edited by Exard3k, 08 February 2017 - 07:34 PM.

[MacClearly]

Kuaron, on 08 February 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

LRM range, velocity, shock absorption, hill climb...
Skills that round up an LRM or mobility skilled Mech but noone would take if they had the choice.

PGI made the right decision here.
Now, they need to do something against boating, but this is topic of another thread.

No they don't need to stop people from configuring their mech how they choose. You may not like boating, great don't boat but don't worry about what I choose to do with my mech.

[Riitters]

762 NATO, on 08 February 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

Yes, I do want min/maxing. Not min/maxing is a waste of time and energy. Did I try too hard for you? Am I the special snowflake because I view this as a competition or are you the snowflake for wanting to play the game your way? I dont know.

No, you didn't try too hard because you've been playing this game since 2015 and are Tier 2. Grow up.

HassonAssassin, on 08 February 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

Okay, so you may not have seen what the skill tree look like just yet Ritters. You aren't nerfing availability for laser anything, The weapons trees are surprisingly linear, which is great. However, the utilities that were easily available for 750/1000 XP/GXP are now slammed behind Hill climb.. and speed retention, which are far from the cooling system or aspect of a mech (Given in most titles and lore, a Mech could carry coolant pods by default and always have a reserve, leaving cooling and heat management more of it's own system) The issue is not giving us the players the freedom we want to make the decisions we want. Either we get more points to use (For more that three weapons and defense and utility, which we could do much easier before) or the skill tree gets broken up into more simple groups to pick and choose what modifications we want like we used to be able to with the Module system.

Excuse me? I get that trying to deride your "opponent" in a discussion makes you feel better about non-involved parties reading your post, but Jesus Christ. If you look at the skill trees for weapons that have been historically problematic with balance and quirks, some of the biggest benefits are on opposite sides of the tree to force your investment if you want ALL the benefits.
Which is exactly why this thread is here. People who want to have their cake and eat it too.

[Kuaron]

MacClearly, on 08 February 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

You may not like boating, great don't boat but don't worry about what I choose to do with my mech.

Most stupid comment speaking of what is encouraged and discouraged by a system.

[ArticArcher]

I also find it odd that I basically have to get all of a tree to max a type of skill because PGI decided to put them all scattered about. I do not mind having to take few extras but there is a lot of wasted/forced skill points that will lead to boating 1 type of weapon system.

[Kuaron]

An alternative would be to increase the cost of higher ranks drastically (like Heat containment 5 costing 5 times heat containment 1) and popular skills over unpopular, and then limit not the number of overall skills you can get (the current 91) but XP you can spend.

[HassonAssassin]

Riitters, on 08 February 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

No, you didn't try too hard because you've been playing this game since 2015 and are Tier 2. Grow up.


Excuse me? I get that trying to deride your "opponent" in a discussion makes you feel better about non-involved parties reading your post, but Jesus Christ. If you look at the skill trees for weapons that have been historically problematic with balance and quirks, some of the biggest benefits are on opposite sides of the tree to force your investment if you want ALL the benefits.
Which is exactly why this thread is here. People who want to have their cake and eat it too.

First off, you don't need ALL the benefits of a tree, there are 'Mechs where I feel comfortable that having a pulse cooldown would hurt more now that getting a significantly reduced cooling efficiency (Even if I felt cooldowns before could be avoided for the sake of staggering damage and heat output) when running five Medium pulse on a BattleMaster with SRM6. This trade is fine for investing elsewhere, but the issue is when I go to invest in my cooling like I would have my weapons, which was simpler before when we didn't have to make compromises is now a game of "Do I spend more for useless **** that costs more now than it did before" and significantly more I might add over time.

https://gyazo.com/01...73cb4b182fd5522 - See the image of the tree for 'Mech Operations and how Cool Run and Heat containment are both less percentage that previous in a mastered 'Mech, but also harder to get to right off the bat.

[762 NATO]

Riitters, on 08 February 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

No, you didn't try too hard because you've been playing this game since 2015 and are Tier 2. Grow up.

I'm sorry, I have a real life with real responsibilities like a job slinging iron and a wife and 3 kids. I can't play video games 80 hours a week. And yes, I have been playing since Christmas of 2015. At one point I thought driving kit foxes would be fun. There went my KDR. Later I tried locusts, before the rescale. That was a mistake.

Cheers



Edited for less salt.

Edited by 762 NATO, 08 February 2017 - 09:33 PM.