11 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

http://static.mwomer...TS_ISQuirks.pdf

I've never understood it before and I still don't but why...even for just the PTS...are you nerfing middling to outright bad mechs? Taking away the already timid energy quirks of a Locust 3V. Why?

The admittedly minor nerf to the Firestarters...when is that last time anyone saw a FS in this game? Yet it needs a nerf?

A 30% cut in PPC velocity for a Panther 10K? Were the 10K's really a dominant sniper in the game?

Eliminating the AMS rate of fire bonus on the Wolfhound 1B...really? That was something your data showed as being necessary for balance?

Effectively turning the Cicada 3C into crap. What do you have against the 3C -was it really dominating the medium class?

Goodbye uniqueness of the Black Jack variants. All are nerfed, fairly dramatically, with nerfs directed to their potential uniqueness.

You are nerfing Vindicators...VINDICATORS!!. Seriously, WTF?

Crabs already had hardly noticeable weapons quirks...and yet you nerfed them.

I can't go on, and, I think there is no need to go on here.
Nerfing what are already secondary or even rarely played mechs, is simply going to encourage folks to ignore them even more. The skills tree, with its remarkably high costs is already inherently going to push folks toward playing only the best most meta mechs and your nerfing mechs that aren't even in the same zip code as "the meta" is going to utterly eliminate mech diversity in this game. I pray these changes are limited only to the PTS.

One more thing: Black Knights. Your nerfs eliminate nearly all uniqueness. Why would you do that when creating a system where you no longer need to buy three mechs? May as well just dump all but one as there is no reason at all to have more than that if they are all nearly identical.

Edited by Bud Crue, 08 February 2017 - 05:14 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

They're basically trying to eliminate uniqueness of mechs and make the player create uniqueness for his own. For example with my Hellbringers I'll probably have one for ERML, one for ERLL, and then two for other stuff (though I'd probably go meta on two of them copying the ERML build because I use those for FW).

I'm not saying its the right thing to do, just what they did. Some higher boosts to the really weak mechs that relied heavily on weapon quirks instead of armor quirks would be nice, since they kept defense and mobility the same but knocked down weapons heavily.

[Vizius]

I still don't understand the removal of quirks that comes with the new skill tree. Example the Hunchback 4SP, I guess it loses all of the structure quirks that make this mech a tank, and now I can spec into added structure % to get it back, but can't all mechs now add structure bonuses via skills? Isn't that basically a nerf to the hunchie? If so doesn't that mean all mechs that relied on quirks for balance just got nerfed?

[Bud Crue]

Dakota1000, on 08 February 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

They're basically trying to eliminate uniqueness of mechs and make the player create uniqueness for his own. For example with my Hellbringers I'll probably have one for ERML, one for ERLL, and then two for other stuff (though I'd probably go meta on two of them copying the ERML build because I use those for FW).

I'm not saying its the right thing to do, just what they did. Some higher boosts to the really weak mechs that relied heavily on weapon quirks instead of armor quirks would be nice, since they kept defense and mobility the same but knocked down weapons heavily.

Eliminating uniqueness of the variants is just going to further encourage folks to take the 1 variant that has the best hardpoints over the others...assuming the class has a variant worth taking. I mean who is going to take a Grasshopper 5J with 6 comparatively low hardpoints over an N or a P. Yet once again they nerfed the J (along with the others). If they all are made the same the 5P wins just from its hardpoint arrangement. All this nerfing of the under performers is going to do is push people toward only those mechs that don't NEED quirks and utterly avoid ALL variants of mechs that are middling.

As I said elsewhere, this game is about to be Kodiak-3 (et al) online. Why build mechs that needed quirks before, and that have now lost them (to various extents) when there are mechs like the Kodiak-3 that dominate without quirks?

[Tamerlin]

As they notes said, all quirks are going away over time. They pulled the weapon quirks first.

[Bud Crue]

Vizius, on 08 February 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Isn't that basically a nerf to the hunchie? If so doesn't that mean all mechs that relied on quirks for balance just got nerfed?

Yes. Yes it does.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Bud Crue, on 08 February 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

Eliminating uniqueness of the variants is just going to further encourage folks to take the 1 variant that has the best hardpoints over the others...assuming the class has a variant worth taking. I mean who is going to take a Grasshopper 5J with 6 comparatively low hardpoints over an N or a P. Yet once again they nerfed the J (along with the others). If they all are made the same the 5P wins just from its hardpoint arrangement. All this nerfing of the under performers is going to do is push people toward only those mechs that don't NEED quirks and utterly avoid ALL variants of mechs that are middling.

As I said elsewhere, this game is about to be Kodiak-3 (et al) online. Why build mechs that needed quirks before, and that have now lost them (to various extents) when there are mechs like the Kodiak-3 that dominate without quirks?

What I'm hoping with this PTS is that we get more quirk refinements so that weaker mechs do get boosts again.

[Bud Crue]

Tamerlin, on 08 February 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

As they notes said, all quirks are going away over time. They pulled the weapon quirks first.

Citation? Quirks are being reduced. I did not read anything in the notes to suggest that they are going away over time. If they did more than half of the IS mechs would be rendered obsolete if not outright unplayable, regardless of the skills tree.

[FupDup]

I wonder if PGI will pick up on my idea of a Skill Multiplier on a per-mech and per-variant basis. Basically, each node on the skill tree has a minimum base value, and then this value is increased (or decreased) based on the mech you apply the skill to.

So, a KDK-3 will probably have a Skill Multiplier of just 1.0, meaning it gets the minimum value for any skill. A Victor might have a SM around 4.0 or 5.0, so suddenly the same skill nodes are much more powerful for it. For example, a KDK-3 with max UAC cooldown will only get the same 4% boost it gets now. A Victor would now get 16-20% cooldown boost for the same skill point investment.

Edited by FupDup, 08 February 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[Vizius]

FupDup, on 08 February 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

I wonder if PGI will pick up on my idea of a Skill Multiplier on a per-mech and per-variant basis. Basically, each node on the skill tree has a minimum base value, and then this value is increased (or decreased) based on the mech you apply the skill to.

So, a KDK-3 will probably have a Skill Multiplier of just 1.0, meaning it gets the minimum value for any skill. A Victor might have a SM around 4.0 or 5.0, so suddenly the same skill nodes are much more powerful for it. For example, a KDK-3 with max UAC cooldown will only get the same 4% boost it gets now. A Victor would now get 16-20% cooldown boost for the same skill point investment.

I had the same thought as this. I hope this is what PGI was thinking as the solution to balancing mechs. The only problem is that in order to restore balance you will need to invest into the mech, which means you need to pilot an under-performing mech in order to make it viable.

Edited by Vizius, 08 February 2017 - 05:49 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FupDup, on 08 February 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

I wonder if PGI will pick up on my idea of a Skill Multiplier on a per-mech and per-variant basis. Basically, each node on the skill tree has a minimum base value, and then this value is increased (or decreased) based on the mech you apply the skill to.

So, a KDK-3 will probably have a Skill Multiplier of just 1.0, meaning it gets the minimum value for any skill. A Victor might have a SM around 4.0 or 5.0, so suddenly the same skill nodes are much more powerful for it. For example, a KDK-3 with max UAC cooldown will only get the same 4% boost it gets now. A Victor would now get 16-20% cooldown boost for the same skill point investment.

Spread this idea.

[Bud Crue]

Another thing I am convinced of that with the skills tree (at least as it is currently presented), hardpoints and hit boxes will be even more of a dominating factor than they are now. Good night sweet Cataphracts. Farewell forever my fair Firestarters. Adieu, Adieu Awesomes (as an aside...look at the nerfs to the Awesomes!).