16 replies to this topic

[cervelos2]

I can understand the idea behind linking nodes and making that 'web' type skill tree, but I think it leads to you having to buy too many nodes you don't want or need.

For example, in the survival/ defensive tree you must buy at least 4 Fall Damage nodes to unlock everything else. I don't want them though as I'm careful to avoid falls.

Look in the Operations/ Sensors tree. I don't really care about Sensor Range, Info Gathering and Target Retention for some mechs, I just want Seismic and Radar Dep. That's a lot of nodes and C Bills or whatever I need to waste (which could be used elsewhere to customise my mech) to get to the nodes I actually want for that mech.

Having to buy unwanted and unnecessary nodes means I can't buy the nodes I want in other trees. At first I thought 91 nodes would be stacks, but they quickly get chewed up with the nodes you don't actually want, but have to buy to unlock the good stuff.

Anyway, just my first thoughts.....

[l33tworks]

Its literally the worst part of this whole new skill system. Your first thoughts are correct.

[Tristan Winter]

I think it's good that not every player can pick out level 2 seismic sensors without investing in any other sensor skills. That would make it too easy to cherry-pick the best skills. Seismic sensors should be for mechs with good sensors.

However, I don't think it makes sense to have the 2 seismic sensor skills on opposite sides of the same branch.

https://mwomercs.com...node-structure/

[Old-dirty B]

Tristan Winter, on 09 February 2017 - 05:14 AM, said:

I think it's good that not every player can pick out level 2 seismic sensors without investing in any other sensor skills. That would make it too easy to cherry-pick the best skills. Seismic sensors should be for mechs with good sensors.

However, I don't think it makes sense to have the 2 seismic sensor skills on opposite sides of the same branch.

https://mwomercs.com...node-structure/

I think cherry picking in this is wrong or bad when there are enough points to spend without taking them away in the most valued areas. If one could pick just seismic sensor but having to compromise on durability and/or mobility then it wouldn't be a problem, don't you think?

[Greyhart]

So you would much prefer that seismic sensor cost a straight 20 SP (lets say) and you get no other benefits?

Consider that they deliberately put things behind others so that the stuff they know is OP costs more. Making the OP stuff cost the same as capture accelerator would be broken.

[Cygone]

Greyhart, on 09 February 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

So you would much prefer that seismic sensor cost a straight 20 SP (lets say) and you get no other benefits?

Consider that they deliberately put things behind others so that the stuff they know is OP costs more. Making the OP stuff cost the same as capture accelerator would be broken.

this ^^^^

[cervelos2]

Greyhart, on 09 February 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

So you would much prefer that seismic sensor cost a straight 20 SP (lets say) and you get no other benefits?

Consider that they deliberately put things behind others so that the stuff they know is OP costs more. Making the OP stuff cost the same as capture accelerator would be broken.

I agree that more powerful nodes should cost more in one sense or another, but by putting them behind all the nodes you don't want we're all going to end up with the same builds anyway. Yes, I would be happy on some mechs to have just Seismic without all the other sensor benefits. I thought the idea behind the skill tree was so we could specialise our mechs?

I think it may also harm some mechs more than others too. For my Locust, for example, by the time I've got all the structure, armour and agility nodes it needs, plus a few of the weapon nodes for one weapon type, I've hardly got any free nodes left. There's no way of getting radar dep or seismic on that mech without getting rid of some armour, structure or agility nodes. And the Locust needs all of the help it can get there, otherwise it's DOA.

[Greyhart]

cervelos2, on 09 February 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

I agree that more powerful nodes should cost more in one sense or another, but by putting them behind all the nodes you don't want we're all going to end up with the same builds anyway. Yes, I would be happy on some mechs to have just Seismic without all the other sensor benefits. I thought the idea behind the skill tree was so we could specialise our mechs?

I think it may also harm some mechs more than others too. For my Locust, for example, by the time I've got all the structure, armour and agility nodes it needs, plus a few of the weapon nodes for one weapon type, I've hardly got any free nodes left. There's no way of getting radar dep or seismic on that mech without getting rid of some armour, structure or agility nodes. And the Locust needs all of the help it can get there, otherwise it's DOA.

Well there's the rub. I see 2 ways you could work a skill system:

the nodes are a linear progression in an area. However each new level costs more SP than the last one. I.e. redar derp 20% costs 1 SP the next radar Derp 20% costs 2SP the one after that costs 3 SP and so on. (number could vary)

Or you go with each node costs the same but you have to spend X SP to get to the parts you know you want, collecting pointless nodes in the process.

Once there pealed and boiled they end up about the same


They've gone with this system so each node costs the same (1SP) but the good stuff is locked behind the questionable stuff.

I'd say the increasing cost option would work better for diverse builds as you won't go as deep, but on the other hand no one would put anything into capture accelerator or hill climb ever.

Edited by Greyhart, 09 February 2017 - 06:34 AM.

[Dracol]

cervelos2, on 09 February 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

I agree that more powerful nodes should cost more in one sense or another, but by putting them behind all the nodes you don't want we're all going to end up with the same builds anyway. Yes, I would be happy on some mechs to have just Seismic without all the other sensor benefits. I thought the idea behind the skill tree was so we could specialise our mechs?

I think it may also harm some mechs more than others too. For my Locust, for example, by the time I've got all the structure, armour and agility nodes it needs, plus a few of the weapon nodes for one weapon type, I've hardly got any free nodes left. There's no way of getting radar dep or seismic on that mech without getting rid of some armour, structure or agility nodes. And the Locust needs all of the help it can get there, otherwise it's DOA.

Seismic on a locust? When the hell does one stop moving to use it?

[Sky Hawk]

Similar problems here.. If I want torso speed/yaw/etc... I HAVE TO buy a bunch of ARM movements/speed stuffs first...

[Kuaron]

There are other ways to replace the necessity of hiding popular behind unpopular skills, but they are always complex solutions.

You can’t just make linear trees without changing anything else and expect them to be balanced in the slightest and choices to not always look the same.

Edited by Kuaron, 09 February 2017 - 06:47 AM.

[ForceUser]

Dracol, on 09 February 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Seismic on a locust? When the hell does one stop moving to use it?

About 2 seconds before you die.

[keith]

i havn't played in a while. but i've played many mmos, which is this style of skill tree. boy is it wrong. to force u into useless skills of unwanted stuff is meh. would have been between if all skills went linear with rising costs. since this is for "feb" release u know not much is gonna change.

[Old-dirty B]

Dracol, on 09 February 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Seismic on a locust? When the hell does one stop moving to use it?

a common trick is to "dance" quickly back and forth remaining on one location but not standing still on the exact same spot. Right when you have completely decelerated to accelerate into the other direction there's a very brief moment where you can read the seismic sensor.

[Mjoellnir]

Agree 17 skillpoints to unlock 100% Radar Depr.
12 of this skillpoints i never would spend if i am not forced to by that crapy skill tree Sensors.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Honestly there needs to be some fluff blocking the strongest skills, but that fluff needs to be something worthwhile as well. Fall damage reduction and faster arms are not very useful.

[DeeHawk]

Mjoellnir, on 09 February 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

Agree 17 skillpoints to unlock 100% Radar Depr.
12 of this skillpoints i never would spend if i am not forced to by that crapy skill tree Sensors.

I would imagine that exactly radar derp, is made very costly to max out, so that very few will have it, making it more of a luxury. No more full teams with 100% radar derp. This makes information a fraction more valuable, and missiles somewhat more powerful. I think that is exactly what is intended.

I still haven't decided if I think there is too many compulsury nodes, however I don't really feel the composition of the trees promotes specialization. Will have to make more builds.