26 replies to this topic

[Skribs]

I'm just curious as to what people think is the best thing about the new skill tree. Obviously there are a lot of concerns people have, but what are the good things with the new system?

[MuonNeutrino]

Only one of those that's actually a positive is the removal of the 3 mech rule. Modules didn't get cheaper, because now you're *forced* to buy them for every single mech. Customization didn't increase, because there's a very obvious optimum skill point distribution. And simply giving everyone more HP is the laziest possible way to increase TTK, as it doesn't address any of the underlying problems that cause TTK to be low in the first place.

[Skribs]

MuonNeutrino, on 10 February 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Only one of those that's actually a positive is the removal of the 3 mech rule. Modules didn't get cheaper, because now you're *forced* to buy them for every single mech. Customization didn't increase, because there's a very obvious optimum skill point distribution. And simply giving everyone more HP is the laziest possible way to increase TTK, as it doesn't address any of the underlying problems that cause TTK to be low in the first place.

I'm going to disagree. Extra armor/health makes excessive pinpoint burst less dangerous, because it requires accurate placement on follow-up shots. It makes higher DPS builds more useful because they have time to catch up to the pinpoint burst. Are there other, potentially better solutions? Yes. But it's not a bad idea and it's not something I'd so easily dismiss.

[Davegt27]

Increased ttk is good

Changes to the crit system are still up in the air

[Skribs]

The reason I ask is because I believe most of these could be accomplished without the new skill tree.

Step 1: Remove the 3-variant rule. I thought it was a bad idea in 2013 when I started playing the game.
Step 2: Change the Pinpoint skill to give 10% armor bonus. This will fix that skill and give an increase in TTK.
Step 3: Done.

We still have modules and their cost, but that's been accepted for a while now. We still have the customization that comes from a Mechwarrior game. We get 2 of the big benefits of the system without any of the negatives.

[M E M E M A C H I N E]

Other. It looks like they tried. Tried harder than with energy draw.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Davegt27, on 10 February 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

Increased ttk is good

Changes to the crit system are still up in the air

The crit system is a step in the right direction, but weapons seem to be destroyed far too quickly, it needs to be where all weapons are destroyed in a section by the time it reaches its end, and crit-seeking weapons can strip it much more quickly.

[Skribs]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 February 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

The crit system is a step in the right direction, but weapons seem to be destroyed far too quickly, it needs to be where all weapons are destroyed in a section by the time it reaches its end, and crit-seeking weapons can strip it much more quickly.

Basically that instead of a chance to hit your weapons, your weapons are destroyed as a percentage of your structure?

[VitriolicViolet]

Highlanders with 150+ front armor

[Wraith 1]

More customization.

Current PTS build is a colossal dumpster fire that would be the final nail in the coffin for me if it made it to live, but the idea of a skill tree where you actually have to choose stuff instead of just unlocking everything could be pretty nice with some big changes.

[Chados]

Ability to beef up armor and structure. That's great!

[The Lost Boy]

Other!

It allows more tools for balance. Adjusting the layout of a tree, node values, the increase or decrease of the number of nodes available per mech, or even limiting the the categories available to a mech. All of these and more can be used for balance. So far Im loving everything PGI has done with this. Nothing is perfect but this is a great step forward.

[Exard3k]

I voted on rule of 3. But the more matches I play, the more I like the new crit system to a degree where it maybe is the best addition to gameplay this update has to offer. Seriously. I love it.

Edited by Exard3k, 10 February 2017 - 05:18 PM.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Skribs, on 10 February 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Basically that instead of a chance to hit your weapons, your weapons are destroyed as a percentage of your structure?

Not quite, I'm just giving an estimate as to how long a stuffed section should lose all its weapons. Using something like an AC10 should destroy all weapons in a section by the time it reaches red, the MG and LB-Xs should do this by the time a section reaches orange.

[Skribs]

I don't consider the crit changes to be part of the new skill tree. I consider it to be additional patch changes they want to do alongside the new system.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

I voted OTHER... the Best & Only good thing I could figure out is that MWO Portal doesnt crash like the old client did. The Skill Tree system is a dumpster fire of terrible in every way... invalidating years of time spent playing this game while Nerfing IS mechs into the ground with a slight Buff to Clan mechs... FUUUU UUUUUUUUCK YOU PGI!!!!!!!

[The Lost Boy]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 10 February 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

I voted OTHER... the Best & Only good thing I could figure out is that MWO Portal doesnt crash like the old client did. The Skill Tree system is a dumpster fire of terrible in every way... invalidating years of time spent playing this game while Nerfing IS mechs into the ground with a slight Buff to Clan mechs... FUUUU UUUUUUUUCK YOU PGI!!!!!!!

Nerfing IS mechs into ground? Hardly. Lights will be tougher, dakka build will get more shells per ton, xl less vulnerable(more armor). Crits will be less common on IS side. So how is that a Nerf into the ground?

[Skribs]

The removal of most of the quirks is a huge nerf to a lot of IS Mechs.

[Fiona Marshe]

Skribs, on 11 February 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

The removal of most of the quirks is a huge nerf to a lot of IS Mechs.

Check the notes; most of the old quirks are included in the base skill trees (you have to compare to notice)

[50 50]

As it is, I would be happy to get this into the live system.
It's a bit of fun to build the skills on the mechs and look at some different loadouts/purposes and then skill them in that direction.

We can get our mechs back to the performance levels they have in the current system with about 50 points.
That leaves another 41 for different enhancements which is like equipping 8 modules on the mech.

It is nice to have so many options and I don't mind picking up some additional bonuses that we simply not possible to have before so maxing out certain skills which could involving picking up some others we might not have had the luxury or interest in getting before just seems like a bonus on the way to getting level 5.

HOWEVER...

If anything, we might have too many skill points and there are a few skills that only have 1 or 2 levels which could be broken up further. I feel that if it simply boils down to everyone taking Tree 1, Tree 2 and Tree 3 as almost a compulsory path then it won't have created the differences in builds that we might hope for.
There needs to be that risk, that hard choice in taking one skill over another so that there really is no clear single way to build things. If we want difference in builds then we need to have the situation of "If you want to go brawler you should max Tree A and then flavour to your choice. If you want to be a sniper, you are better to take Tree B and then flavour to your choice. Want to be a Scout, then max Tree C and then flavour.." Etc.

I think the only way to really do that is to reduce the number of skill points we can have down by a decent chunk. Perhaps 60 is a good number. It's hard to give up options and to always want more but if we want our mechs to be good in one direction, they are balanced by being poor in another.

On a side note. IF there are less skill points to obtain, it does not cost as much xp or c-bills to 'master' a mech. We can debate the actual costs, but bringing the total points available down does have that side effect.

Edited by 50 50, 11 February 2017 - 06:26 PM.