3 replies to this topic

[P4riah1]

First off I like a lot about the new system. It has great potential, and I love how it gets rid of the 3-mech mastery system and the module hunting problem. My main issue is that given the costs of the points, the game's grind will go up significantly for me. I don't have too many hours to play, and for how I play the grind to equip and then master a mech are going to go up significantly

Here's my math about how this new system will effect how much it costs to equip and master a mech, in both cbills and XP. In other words, how many drops you have to grind, assuming they don't change how much money and xp you get per game.

This math is for MY PLAYSTYLE ONLY. I hoard and never sell weapons/engines/equipment (so to equip a mech it usually costs me 0 cbills in weapons/gear and I only have to buy an engine maybe 50% of the time), I tend to keep on average 2 of the 3 mechs you have to buy on a chassis in the 3-mech system and master all the ones I keep, and because I don't play enough to have the cbills to put modules on every mech, I have 1 or 2 sets and swap as needed and don't buy more.

Cbills per mech, current system

For me, averaging cheaper light mechs and more expensive assaults, it costs me 10m cbills to buy and equip a mech. (This counts endo/ff/dhs, engines, clan mechs more expensive, etc etc)

30m to buy the 3 variants you need, then I strip the 3rd and sell it back for maybe 3m. That's 27m for the two remaining, or 13.5m cbills to equip and master one mech. The 3-mech system adds 3.5m cbills to the equipping of one mastered mech because I have to buy then sell one mech I don't want.

XP per mech, current system

I on average master 2 and basic the 1 I sell. This is 57,250 on the two I keep, and 14,250 to basic the 1 I sell. 128,750 total, 64,375 per mech. The 3-mech system adds 7,125 XP to the mastering of one mech because I have to basic 1 mech I don't want.

The new system

Under the new system, my basic average cbill cost of 10m for equipping a mech doesn't change. Added to it is the 9.1m cbill in order to purchase all 91 skill points. Per mech cost 19m. The total XP cost of all 91 points is 1500*91=136,500 XP.

It will cost me on average 5.5m cbills and 75,000 XP more to equip and master a single mech under this system. In other words a 50% increase in cbill grinding and a 100% increase in XP grinding. This will not encourage me to buy new mechs, or really do much of anything except play the mechs I always have already built and mastered.

Other playstyles

Using this I can also estimate the 'best case' and 'worst case' players for the change in grind. If you are the type of person who only keeps 1 mech out of the 3-mech system AND puts a full module loadout on every mech you keep, the cbill grind will likely remain unchanged and the XP grind might be a 50% increase. For someone (my brother is an example of this) who keeps all 3 mechs of the 3-mech system and also module swaps, the grind increase is more like +100%/+120%. Certainly not great.

Respec cost

The other issue that would increase the grind for me is the cost of respeccing a point. 125,000 cbills per point is ridiculous. Like for many others, for me one of the core gameplay features of MWO (indeed any Btech game) is customizing my mech builds. I change my loadouts constantly. It's half the fun of the game for me. If I had to spend 125k per point to move weapon tree points every time I swapped some guns around I would NOT be having fun, and I would also be cutting into my cbill reserves for buying and mastering other mechs. The only solution would be more grinding. I know at least one other player who will basically be done with this game if this goes live and the game starts charging us extra to customize mechs.

Solutions

Simple. Lower the cost per point and remove the respec cost. Change the cost per point to something like 50k cbills 1000 XP. Make it so that once a point is assigned to a mech it cannot be removed, but it can be moved around within the mech trees at will at no extra cost.

50k 1000 is just off the top of my head. The best would be some middle ground that means maybe a slight increase in grind for people like me or my brother, and maybe even a slight grind DECREASE for the 'best case' player listed above who buys tons of modules.

This also doesn't address the thorny balance problem of how this system encourages extreme boating. I don't feel qualified to offer a good solution to that, so I'm sticking to the problem I CAN address.

Thoughts?

Edited by P4riah1, 09 February 2017 - 04:02 PM.

[Todd Marshall]

I think that the moving around of skillpoints for no additoinal cost is an excellent idea!

[TheMadTypist]

I think instead of a flat cut in costs, the initial 30-or-so nodes should be have a graduated cost- 25k/50k/75k to max 100k- such that it's cheap to make a few small tweaks to a 'mech, but really hammering on the bonuses can push the pocketbook.

This is important because where before, module slots limited the power modules had on the system, there are a LOT of skill slots. The difference between an unskilled machine and a skilled one is a biiig power gap. Where before you could unlock your 'mech skills for XP only and ignore the module system altogether, and pug away happily without being punished too much, now you get facepunched by those who are bringing multi-million-invested machines to the match.

Making it easier to put the first third of your nodes into a machine lessens the time you get slapped around, and makes the overall price feel more fair.

[P4riah1]

I like that idea. It does what I want in reducing the overall costs, plus the other advantages you describe. The cost could also be based on the node's position in its tree - the first couple of layers cost something like 25k 500xp, and it goes up further into the tree. This would keep the price consistent relative to the bonus given. You wouldn't have someone who's on node 35 paying full price for a tiny bonus at the beginning of a tree they just hadn't used yet.

EDIT: just realized that this could be exploited if you place a cheap node then respec it to a different tree for free. Maybe you'd have to pay the difference. This would have to be investigated and balanced carefully but the idea is there. xD

Edited by P4riah1, 09 February 2017 - 05:43 PM.