39 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

In the new skill tree system, one of the mobility categories is dedicated to Jump Jets.

As many of us know, JJ class I and II are the most under performing among different JJ classes.

I wanted to see how full set of JJ skills could affect a max JJ assault mech like a highlander heavy metal.

Here is a side by side comparison:









To better show the differences, here is an approximation of the jump trajectory, with and without vectoring:

Also, JJ lift speed skill does not work at all:

The extra height is coming from JJ Vent Calibration skill.

what is JJ lift speed supposed to do?

So, the conclusion is:

The JJ skills does almost nothing to address the main drawback of JJ class I and II which is lift and boost... !!!!!!
What is PGI's obsession with 1% skill steps?!

Percentage buffs is not a good approach in this case. This way higher values will receive more (e.g. smaller JJs) and smaller values receive less (Class I and II JJs).

Buffs should be an absolute number increase. Not percentage!

The JJ vectoring skill (while useless) does have an effect though!

Edited by Navid A1, 10 February 2017 - 08:06 PM.

[Fox2232]

Yes, I agree. JJ are damn weak. They are definitely nor "Jumping" They are just Jets.
Initial speed bonus should go from 1% to 2.5~3%.

Or JJ initial speed must be much higher but thrust of Jets lower. So player starts his real jump at high speed and decelerates.
=> While that may not necessarily boost maximum achievable altitude, it would allow mech to get into that maximum achievable altitude faster = more action
(At least for lighter mechs as I do not expect Assault to jump like grasshopper.)

In the end, if Light mech is capable to move his legs at speed 130km/h and has great acceleration, it should be able to use same legs to achieve higher initial jump speed.

There is good reason why High Jump in Athletics is not stationary discipline, but people 1st gain momentum before they jump.

Edited by Fox2232, 10 February 2017 - 01:03 AM.

[Brizna]

I was very curious and skeptically optimistic about those quirks so the first thing I did was try them on MLX. My testing wasn't as deep as yours but I immediately reached the same conclusion.

Standing still I jumped until out of jump juice:
No skills: I hit the ground at 70 m/s
All skills: I hit the ground at 72 m/s.

So I think jump skills need huge boosts to be at least noticeable.

[AngrySpartan]

JJs aren't as good at maneuvering as they should be in the first place. No skill tree will change that, especially 1-2% bonuces it provides.

PS. I am still dreaming for a time when PGI will finally copy MWLLs directional Jump Jets.

[Nik Reaper]

Heck I wish JJ were what in other games ground targeting was, you press a button get a circle painted on the ground, mby a trajectory you can make higher or lower and you release the button or press again and you execute a jump to that spot instead of it being manual, Bam ! instant mobility .

Loved this kind of system in Aliens vs Predator 2.

As usual , the number of jets = more distance and/or higher jumps and it might even have a preparation animation before the jump so that there is no more bunny hopping ...

Edited by Nik Reaper, 10 February 2017 - 04:02 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Old system:

Class 1 and class 2 JJ are used to help climb hills and get your mech off of terrain you may get stuck on. In 90 percent of builds more than 1 is a really a waste.

New system with maxed skill tree:
Class 1 and class 2 JJ are used to help climb hills and get your mech off of terrain you may get stuck on. In 90 percent of builds more than 1 is a really a waste.

For the sake of your sanity, ignore the jump jet tree.

[Slambot]

PGI is petrified of a return to the poptart meta.

[Karamarka]

Seems garbage.

[TercieI]

Slambot, on 10 February 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

PGI is petrified of a return to the poptart meta.

"It's a little late for that."

-HBK-IIC, NTG, SMN and HMN

(Very nicely done, OP)

[TheMagician]

Thanks for doing this. Hopefully PGI will realize that 1% of near 0 is still near 0.

[4EVR]

You keep jumpsniping in check by keeping ERPPCs hot. That way skirmishers and brawlers always have the upper hand if they rush a group of poptarts. There is no need to keep JJ gimped.

By the way, they're not just jets. They are fusion-powered rockets optimized for high thrust / short burn time. For comparison, real world fission powered rockets (the NERVA) are already twice as efficient as chemical rockets. Fusion power would give you even greater efficiency, and according to lore JJ have excellent thrust-to-weight ratios at the expense of not being able to run for more than a few seconds.

Edited by 4EVR, 10 February 2017 - 06:00 AM.

[Hydrocarbon]

Be more annoyed that the BASE jump height is so gimped. Not only are mechs jumping half as high as lore (test it), they're also falling twice as fast due to increased gravity since testers felt 1x gravity was floaty.

I'd love to see PGI increase jump height near max, and I'd also be okay with increasing jump heat by that much. This would let IS mechs join the fun rather than use them for stepping over pebbles. A reduction in gravity would also make jumping more risk/reward. You could utilize more weapon systems with a softer fall, but also stay a target for longer.

[Zainadin]

TercieI, on 10 February 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Slambot, on 10 February 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

PGI is petrified of a return to the poptart meta.

"It's a little late for that."

-HBK-IIC, NTG, SMN and HMN

(Very nicely done, OP)

BUT in the last 'round' table Russ said he hasn't even thought of pop-tarting in a "really long time". Lets all be honest with each other they aren't watching how games are being played, or maybe just not at the higher levels.

Edited by Zainadin, 10 February 2017 - 09:35 AM.

[Navid A1]

An epic retweet from Russ:

https://twitter.com/...499391308238848

[Navid A1]

PGI, one simple solution:

Increase the boost per step from 1% to 4%, So that the max skill set would give you 20% more jump height.

Edited by Navid A1, 10 February 2017 - 01:06 PM.

[TercieI]

Navid A1, on 10 February 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

An epic retweet from Russ:

https://twitter.com/...499391308238848

<facedesk>

[Dee Eight]

try it on a viper and see if you can touch the sky...

[Andi Nagasia]

Posting this from other Topics

Andi Nagasia, on 09 February 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

Beat you to the video,


personally, unless you use JJ alot, Poptarting, or using them heavily for mobility, id say no,
the stats i feel need to be at least doubled due to how they are structured,

also their needs to be a much greater benefit for Assaults in the JJ Tree,
personally i was thinking of giving them to my DWF, but after testing +3m height & +12m Running i have to say no,

Personally i would like JJ to be useful, i would love to be able to Fly with my DWF,
and if im dedicating 15points to non Offensive or Defensive acts, those Buffs should represent that,
using 17% of my Skill Points should give me a benefit in what ever tree i choose to invest,

[Navid A1]

Dee Eight, on 10 February 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

try it on a viper and see if you can touch the sky...

Sorry... but Viper does not need more jump height... I would have removed some JJs on it if I could.

The (literally) massive issue here is Class I and II JJs. A highlander that invests 10 skill nodes and 10 tons on Jump Jets should at least be able to... JUMP!

PGI's percentage system is not how you should approach this Jump Jets issue.

Percentage system gives more to system that already have more, and gives less to those who have less. Its... its... its just... dumb.

[Navid A1]

New "bug"?

Lift speed boost has exactly zero effect at the moment (as in not working at all)