14 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

1) Due to overall cost for New Mechs will see a general reduction from the playerbase to invest in new mechs. Where as now we purchase 3 - 5 variants and skill them, I think in the future it will be rare to see people skill more than 1 or 2 variants of a chassis.




2) Cost impact "punishment" for players transferring many mechs from old system to new system.

Here is a post from HPG by Soapyfrog that already sums it up:
https://www.reddit.c...holder/ddjkscx/

Quote

Pretty much the worst thing you can do IMHO is rob me of progress. I own most mechs, mastered 99% of them... no we are going to back to needing to grind a ton of extra xp and c-bills to max them out again??
No. I deeply regret now my last year of play and purchases. I really thought we were building towards something better, not a giant kick in the balls.
PGI is basically telling me openly I have been wasting my time.

Don't do this.

Grant us enough XP to master a mech in the new system if it's already mastered in the old one.

Yes you will be giving out freebies, this is what you should do when you bring drastic changes to your consumers that you want them on board with.




3) Some mech classes could simply be given a discount on costs for specific trees. i.e. it costs less CBills & XP to buy those nodes.

SP limit doesn't change, just the cost to the player for that particular weight class.

This could also be used to make skilling Lights & Mediums cheaper overall to play- as they are cheaper to purchase to begin with they should also be cheaper to skill. (Outlined below, they receive discounts on more trees and those discounts could also potentially be larger than Heavies & Assaults)

It's a way to reduce the current costs of the tree, that emphasizes roles.

Lights: Lower Chassis, Operations, Sensors, Aux, 1 weapon Tree* (Discounts on 5 trees)
Mediums: Lower Chassis, Operations, Sensors, 2 Weapons Trees* (Discounts on 5 trees)
Heavies: Operations, 2 Weapons Trees* (Discounts on 3 trees)
Assaults: Defense, 2 Weapons Trees* (Discounts on 3 trees)

(*Inputting skills into a 3rd weapon tree would be purchased at normal cost)

Role Emphasis:
Lights: Scouting, Mobility
Mediums: Mobility, Support
Heavies: Firepower
Assaults: Firepower, Tanking




4) Respecs: Active premium time should grant free respecs. I'm already paying you for "premium" - make it actually premium.

Edited by Ultimax, 10 February 2017 - 10:26 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sounds right.

The cost is really nasty. You could make it half as expensive and its still quite restrictive. And that's just talking about C-bills. Poor new players

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 10 February 2017 - 10:21 AM.

[Ultimax]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 February 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

Sounds right.

The cost is really nasty. You could make it half as expensive and its still quite restrictive. And that's just talking about C-bills. Poor new players

Agreed, what do you think about what I outlined above to give XP & CBill discounts to specific weight classes to emphasize roles?

[Gas Guzzler]

Ultimax, on 10 February 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

Agreed, what do you think about what I outlined above to give XP & CBill discounts to specific weight classes to emphasize roles?

I think its a cool idea honestly, it will help new players get into their preferred roles, as long as those discount skill trees are identified.

Also, the granting mastery status to mastered mechs would be real nice, but I doubt its gonna happen PGI is banking on making a killing in XP conversions.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 10 February 2017 - 10:27 AM.

[Ultimax]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 February 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Also, the granting mastery status to mastered mechs would be real nice, but I doubt its gonna happen PGI is banking on making a killing in XP conversions.

You can't make money if players don't buy-in to the system, i.e. they quit.

[Skribs]

Ultimax, on 10 February 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

You can't make money if players don't buy-in to the system, i.e. they quit.

I think the idea is to make stuff expensive enough that players buy Mech Packs or buy Mechs with MC.

Like you said, if players quit (like I will if it goes live with these numbers) then it's going to hurt them.

[Ultimax]

Skribs, on 10 February 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

I think the idea is to make stuff expensive enough that players buy Mech Packs or buy Mechs with MC.

Like you said, if players quit (like I will if it goes live with these numbers) then it's going to hurt them.

Oh, yes that is clearly the goal - but that will backfire if they don't at least cover the up front cost of switching.


Going forward, it's something that can be mitigated.

Through discounts, freebies in new mechpacks and the fact you no longer need 3 variants to skill a mech (that saves cost).


The problem is switching RIGHT NOW, is massively punitive to existing players - particularly those with large collections.

[dukeofrugby]

I think it is a good idea but i dont see how new players have it so rough. Now they only need to buy one variant to master it instead of 3 and the 9 million c bills to master includes modules that new players would not even have unlocked yet.

[Skribs]

Part of it is the complexity for newer players. Most MMOs don't have you start on the talent system until level 10 or so. This jumps you right in.

I agree that it is more punishing for players with large collections, especially those of us who play off and on but have an itchy trigger finger on Mech pack sales.

[Bud Crue]

Skribs, on 10 February 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

I think the idea is to make stuff expensive enough that players buy Mech Packs or buy Mechs with MC.

Like you said, if players quit (like I will if it goes live with these numbers) then it's going to hurt them.

People buy mechs because they look cool and they are for all intent and purpose a virtual collectible toy for one to play with. Even when PGI went to the 3 plus hero and then 3 plus hero and reinforcements, people still bought the things. That is now dead. The new system guts that model and changes the focus from the "cool factor" to "what will be effective" as the primary economic and game play driver. This is a consequence of not only the elimination of the "need for 3" model but also the massive grind and the limited number of nodes to use per weapons type of the new skills tree. I mean why buy three different variants of a Grasshopper, when I can just spec out 3 5Ps with their higher and torso mounted hard points? ...there is no reason at all.

This system goes from a business/game model of "cool looking mechs and lots of em!" To one of "just the best performing mechs and lots of em", and yes I think that is going to drive a LOT of folks right out of the game.

[longy221]

dukeofrugby, on 10 February 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I think it is a good idea but i dont see how new players have it so rough. Now they only need to buy one variant to master it instead of 3 and the 9 million c bills to master includes modules that new players would not even have unlocked yet.

I'm a relatively new player with "only" about 80 hours played, and I agree that only buying one mech and paying an extra 9 million is a lot more sensible than the current system. However what kills it for me and would probably make me give up on this game a lot faster is the fact that I am gonna be punished if I want to experiment and figure out how I want to play a mech on my own without going on some website to see what the meta says I should do.

If I lose the desire to experiment I lose one of the primary reasons I have been enjoying and willing to pay for this game.

[Gas Guzzler]

dukeofrugby, on 10 February 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I think it is a good idea but i dont see how new players have it so rough. Now they only need to buy one variant to master it instead of 3 and the 9 million c bills to master includes modules that new players would not even have unlocked yet.

As a new player you don't really need modules. As a somewhat new player, you don't always want just one variant of a mech. Some mechs have a lot of good variants.

But... why not make it easier for new players to get into the game. Even at 5 million c-bills, I wouldn't be able to master all the mechs I have so its still going to be a huge c-bill sink and will end up costing folks.

[Ultimax]

dukeofrugby, on 10 February 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I think it is a good idea but i dont see how new players have it so rough. Now they only need to buy one variant to master it instead of 3 and the 9 million c bills to master includes modules that new players would not even have unlocked yet.

I'm not sure if it's that painful for new players, it will certainly be much harder for them to get a collection going as the cost is more expensive per mech.

The part that is rough for new players is that experimentation and learning just costs way too much.


My first year spent playing this game I TRIED EVERYTHING.

That's why I have strong opinions and crafted ideas on every weight class and every weapon type - because I have used all of them to some extent.

That was easy for me, it would not be easy now - you can't discuss things in full unless you have them at their maxed out best and that will now cost a lot.


They don't have to create that big of a collection, but that actually is addressed in my first point in that this will reduce incentive for players to collect mechs - which ultimately isn't good for PGI's business model.

Edited by Ultimax, 11 February 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[Lostdragon]

My biggest issue is that I will have a lot of mastered mechs I won't be able to skill up completely immediately. I don't want to go backward and this feels like a huge step backward because even with module refunds I will only have enough Cbills to skill up 5 or 6 mechs right away. If a mech is masterd PGI should give us a free skill up on it. If they don't I doubt I will keep playing, I just can't see grinding up mechs I already mastered.

Edit: So I was thinking about it and I will probably get enough Cbills back to skill up maybe 12 or 15 mechs, I was not thinking about weapon modules before and I have a lot of those. That is still only a fraction of the mechs I have mastered.

Russ said in a tweet this should be viewed as expansion like content and we should expect some grinding. That does not hold up to scrutiny, imo. The skill tree is a big change but it is folding a lot of existing things into it. Having to grind to get things we already have is not how expansions work and it is ridiculous to compare this to an expansion, especially since this is replacing what has been called a placeholder system for four years.

Edited by Lostdragon, 11 February 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[Ultimax]

Lostdragon, on 11 February 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

My biggest issue is that I will have a lot of mastered mechs I won't be able to skill up completely immediately. I don't want to go backward and this feels like a huge step backward because even with module refunds I will only have enough Cbills to skill up 5 or 6 mechs right away. If a mech is masterd PGI should give us a free skill up on it. If they don't I doubt I will keep playing, I just can't see grinding up mechs I already mastered.

Definitely, I think a lot of players are in your shoes and they will be extremely upset when this goes live and they realize how much grinding they will have to do to remaster mechs they already had mastered.

Lostdragon, on 11 February 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

Russ said in a tweet this should be viewed as expansion like content and we should expect some grinding. That does not hold up to scrutiny, imo. The skill tree is a big change but it is folding a lot of existing things into it. Having to grind to get things we already have is not how expansions work and it is ridiculous to compare this to an expansion, especially since this is replacing what has been called a placeholder system for four years.

Expansion content actually means more content, this is straight out of the grind-to-play or pay to avoid grind playbook and has nothing 'expansion' like about it.


Russ' comments are just way off the mark on this.

Edited by Ultimax, 11 February 2017 - 12:00 PM.