105 replies to this topic

[Sixpack]

Your decision to push back the release of the skill tree was the right one. Considering the ammount of time until release that was still available the current version of the skill tree would have been a desaster.

I would also like to request that you give your reasons for the changes you will make to the skill tree. We are all here in the hopes of making this a better gaming experiance for everyone involved. But to do that we need to know what road we are driving on.

[C E Dwyer]

This says I.M.O what's good and bad and what needs changing to make it work well.

I really really do think this needs to be pushed back and what's been suggested, implemented, before it goes live

[justcallme A S H]

Deathlike, on 10 February 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

It's actually appalling to think that most of what we see on the PTS would have been live on patch day.

This right here sums it all up. How the abhorrent nature of the current version of the Skill Tree even made it to the PTS - is absolutely beyond me.

I've seen absolutely NOTHING that suggest that:

1. Well thought out
2. Takes any semblance of balance into account.
3. It is easy for new players to understand.
4. It actually is reasonably (mech XP/cbill cost) structured for the majority of players.

And 5 - the BIG ONE

"Empower players with the ability to customize their 'Mechs performance characteristics according to their own desires and goals."


How on earth does forcing people to unlock things they neither want/desire/need - to get to other skills mean - people can customise according to "their own desires"?????????


This is an absolutely short sighted change. It does not take into account the bigger picture at all.

Take the last 18 months of balancing where, realistically, there has been nothing good coming from it. IS rescale which caused intangible issues for a start... It dead set feels like people are just throwing darts at a board and hoping for the best.

The sheer amount of flaws, oversight and so on from PGI on the skill tree is nothing short of perplexing in this instance.


It comes as absolutely no surprise it's pushed back. I wouldn't be surprised if after a update or two, it gets pushed to April. Whoever is working on balance/gameplay - You really need to play the game, talk to people and actually listen to them.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 11 February 2017 - 08:29 AM.

[Ryoken]

I was also wondering how realistic feedback implementation would be when I compared the PLS release date and the proposed roll out of the new skill tree system with the next patch. So yeah definitively understand that more time is needed to consider the feedback - so good choice here PGI!

I also need some more time on the PTS to form an opinion. But playtime with the new skill tree system aside, have there been any thoughts on perhaps Selling additional skilling slots for alternative mech configurations for MC?

So enthusiastic players who allready have fully skilled one skill tree for lets say an energy built can start to collect xp for a second, third or forth skill tree? So if a player changes a mech built it does not need to be reskilled everytime. This would be very usefull as it provides:
- still flexibility to tweek around on (omni)mechs in the mechbay
- earn money for PGI
- long time motivation and grinding for our favourite mechs

PS: Maybe make an Event on the PTS that gives prices to the live server accounts for testing and constructive feedback?

Edited by Ryoken, 11 February 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[Acehilator]

The short list:

- reduce XP and C-Bill costs across the board
- don't forget to roll back all IS mech nerfs except velocity nerfs
- include missiles, AMS and NARC in the ammunition node, or add additional nodes for these ammo types
- UAV tree needs a complete revamp
- why no skills to boost the other consumables? you won't sell more MC consumables anyways

[Bud Crue]

justcallme A S H, on 11 February 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

This right here sums it all up. How the abhorrent nature of the current version of the Skill Tree even made it to the PTS - is absolutely beyond me.

I've seen absolutely NOTHING that suggest that:

1. Well thought out
2. Takes any semblance of balance into account.
3. It is easy for new players to understand.
4. It actually is reasonably (mech XP/cbill cost) structured for the majority of players.

And 5 - the BIG ONE

"Empower players with the ability to customize their 'Mechs performance characteristics according to their own desires and goals."


How on earth does forcing people to unlock things they neither want/desire/need - to get to other skills mean - people can customise according to "their own desires"?????????


This is an absolutely short sighted change. It does not take into account the bigger picture at all.

Take the last 18 months of balancing where, realistically, there has been nothing good coming from it. IS rescale which caused intangible issues for a start... It dead set feels like people are just throwing darts at a board and hoping for the best.

The sheer amount of flaws, oversight and so on from PGI on the skill tree is nothing short of perplexing in this instance.


It comes as absolutely no surprise it's pushed back. I wouldn't be surprised if after a update or two, it gets pushed to April. Whoever is working on balance/gameplay - You really need to play the game, talk to people and actually listen to them.

That sums it up pretty well.

I'd add a vent about the face planting, short-sighted stupidity of the various nerfs presented in the PTS at http://static.mwomer...TS_ISQuirks.pdf and http://static.mwomer..._ClanQuirks.pdf and particularly the nerfs to mechs that already are crap, but since I already have elsewhere I will just say: That me and my 149 mastered mechs that would be reduced to 14 mastered mechs under the PTS agree with ASH.

[Leggin]

No matter what the end results please incorporate an "all button" at the bottom of each tree. It will make it easier and faster for the areas you want all or most of the modules available. You can always go back and remove the 2 or 3 items you didn't want.

I believe being able to master individual mechs instead of the 3 mech requirement is an excellent idea! It should help retain some of our new quality players that are on a gaming budget but also want a very competitive mech.

Would you like to know more?

Edited by Leggin, 11 February 2017 - 09:46 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Paradox42, on 11 February 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

2. Work on balancing. The Tier System is really bad. I know we dont have enough palyers for a decent ELO System, bust still it makes sense to implement one. Why? Because, ELO actually gives players a motivation to reach a certain skill level. It provides them with a sense of accomplishment and actually is an important feedback system in terms of their skill. For Matchmaking it would be super helpful. Even if we put all players in one big pool, at least for the solo and group queue you could use a mix of ELO and Tonnage Balancing system to get more balanced matches, which would drive satisfaction and therefore activity.

no thanks, match quality improved massivly when we moved away from Elo ^{(a persions name not an accronym)} to PSR.

PSR may not be perfect but it is way better than the old Elo system

[Mark Brandhauber]

Great I hope the most commons piece of feedback was it encourages laser boating! and you've figured out some way of dealing with it!, Oh and by the way that banned player sader is exploiting such boating in the PTS

Edited by Mark Brandhauber, 11 February 2017 - 11:14 AM.

[Mjolner]

For me, the fun of mechwarrior games has always been customizing the mechs and trying new combinations, even when they aren't optimized or even very good. The experimentation is what is fun, and if they make it so it costs cbills to reasonably respec a mech from ballistics to energy or missiles or whatever, it will remove a HUGE portion of the fun from the game.

[OneTomboNation]

i think that PGI should really read Kojak's detailed doc on the system. Great work and it serves to instill the idea of really choosing at the cost of other things. You want to choose, you cant have it all. But you shoiuld also be able to generalize as well.

[pacifica812]

Great! Release date pushed back, time taken to adjust, tune and reconsider the whole aspect of the revamp. Thumbs up PGI!

p.s.
Can we have another chicken walker C-bill sale, I kind of bought only one variant per chassis and now that I'll have the time to level those mechs I want to buy the other 2 variants...
Pretty please with sugar on top... happy Valentines 'n' all... violets are blue, roses are red and stuff

Edited by pacifica812, 11 February 2017 - 03:21 PM.

[LesleySchultze]

Please remove the MC aspect of the reset - skill tree.

I regularly change my load outs, so this will force either my purchasing yet more mechs to specialize each mech for a particular weapon load out, or pay every time I want to change a gun.

This will *really* upset many existing players, and alienate new players who do not know that they will need to pay every time they wish to swap a weapon on a mastered mech.

As PGI has a habit of nerfing weapons, (clan UAC's jam chance, clan gauss range reduction, clan large pulse range reduction for example) I have had to rebuild all my mechs several times this last few months already.

The thought of PGI waving a magic wand forcing yet another re spec of weapon and mech choices as well as tactics in game is bad enough, yet alone then making players pay real money to change the mastered mech skill trees.

Seriously, sort this issue out before it bites you in the *** later.

It seems like you are being slightly MC greedy at this point.

Also - I would suggest a standard mech tree similar or the same to what you already have, and an additional weapon and module tree rather than sharing the points over the 91 clicks.
This will still allow for custom bonus or specialization, but will allow you to have a simple to configure starting platform to build on.

Failure to do this will result in 12 man specialist loadout teams destroying all in the way - seriously think about it is my advice.

I hope it works out well, good idea but needs some refinement.

[TLBFestus]

Hold it.....you want to wait a month to collect more data and learn from player input?


WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE PEOPLE AT PGI?

[Frozen Spirit Jac]

Well all the peoples posts that i Liked pretty much sums up all I really need to say. And well done to the video & kojaks review. Awesome work.
On that note, after the CW screw up since it is almost rare to see IS vs IS now, if this hell hole goes through because you greedy little guys want more $$$ ....
Well.... I am looking forward to Battletech and other games to play. As I no longer have a interest in FP/CW as it is so one sided as it is and with this well I doubt anyone would want to fight for IS anymore.

Now the Portal, not many people mentioned it but I will, and even though it does look nice and pretty and you can distinguish between Test Server and Standard, I honestly think it is a waste of download, there is nothing wrong with the standard one that we have. All you have done, is made the standard patcher and beefed it up looking similar to the Blizzard/GW2/EVE portal, and MWO is complex for new players as it is and throwing this in as well. Seriously the developers need to focus on more important things like invisible walls, bugs with turrets, drunken VIP walking into the enemy force....
On that note I will quote Rick Sanchez and say "Well la di dar " ... slow clap

[NotGiggity32]

Like many others that play this game I have multiple jobs and very little time to play. I'm middle aged.
I basically buy some MC each year, wait until PGI offers Double XP Conversion and convert a bunch of Mech XP to GXP.
I then purchase mechs and immedietly elite the mechs with the GXP.
All I have to do under this system is grind the Master Slots.
The system works well. I can enjoy new mechs, have fun and help PGI out.

I have been in the test server and here are the issues I had with the current incarnation of the new skills system.

The C-Bills for Skills has got to go. C-Bills are for equipment and mechs. I speced out 1 Black Jack and it cost me 8.8 Million Dollars. That's almost two or three more Black Jacks! That's absurd! I want to buy more mechs with C-Bills, not skill ones that I have already mastered with C-Bills. No adjustments, just zero C-Bills for Skills.
The skills need to be linear. This is a common complaint I have seen on the forum. If a lot of people don't want to have to buy 3 Mechs to get the one they want, they sure don't want to buy skills they don't want to get to the ones they do want.
I would suggest increasing the max skills to a modest 95. I almost used all of my 91 (88) for my Black Jack just to get it to perform the way it does now with quirks and modules. I didn't even get some of the skills for it because they were buried behind, below, before or where ever on that complicated multi-level marketing skill tree.
I don't want to grind mechs I have already mastered. I don't have time and I don't want to “Thin the Herd.” I like my herd. (128 fully mastered mechs).


I think this system is salvageable, especially if changes like the suggestions above are adopted.
I think it would be best when the test server is finished to go back make some adjustments and then later this year offer another test server and get more feedback from the players.

I would like to see new mechs, new maps, and new modes and a lot fewer changes to the mechanics of the game, thanks.

Sorry late edit. Definitely don't like the reduction in speed on the light mechs. 10 kph at least.

Edited by NotGiggity32, 11 February 2017 - 08:11 PM.

[Deltree Zero]

I think a good suggestion for PGI to have a way to make some dough would be to add the ability to save a mech build for MC so you could swap builds fast if you wanted to spend $ for the luxury.

[Skribs]

Quote

The reception to the overall framework of the new Skill Tree has been positive, but it's clear there are ways to improve the implementation.

Ha.

Ha ha.

Hahahhahahahaha

90% of the threads I saw were complaints.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I really hope it will come in March then. I got lots of mechs I want to improve without dumping C-bills to buy useless copies of the same mech.

[Chados]

R.I.P skill tree system. It's going the same way the energy draw test went. My money's on this not releasing and if it does, the change will be cosmetic.