12 replies to this topic

[SirNotlag]

Alright I'm making polls to try and quantify what the general forum opinion is on the new Skill tree and Ideas going around.

This one is about Skill nodes not their pricing but about respecing. The idea is just to remove respecs all together the nodes are a large enough investment as is and requiring paying more c-bills just to change your build is absurd and kills experimentation.

So the question is would it be better if after a Node was purchased the Pilot could select it on and off whenever he wanted? They would still have to connect the nodes up the tree appropriately and have a total of 91 nodes active at a time.
-Less grind
-does not punish experimentation
-changing loadouts does not cost 1 million to do
-since you have to link the nodes up the tree you can NOT just unlock everything and just pick the cream of the crop nodes.


Example: a pilot was using pulse lasers for awhile and has filled out the skill tree for them he looks at the mech lab and goes you know what if i drop these down to just lasers I can fit 2 more on and a bunch more heatsinks lets see how that runs. he goes and unlocks the beam laser skill nodes and swaps the nodes over. after playing acouple matches he finds he like pulse lasers better cause they are better for brawling which is his playstyle. Goes to mech lab swaps out the lasers back to pulse and just switches the nodes from beam to pulse at no extra cost since he had already unlocked them. Later on he wants to try his mech with 3 large lasers well he can just swap the nodes back to beam since he unlocked them awhile ago.

feel free to vote and discuss

[Horseman]

Yes. It also gives value to your older mechs (as you will eventually have a lot of extra flexibility with the unlocks)

[SirNotlag]

It would also replicate swapping out modules rather than having to buy them for every mech.

[The Lost Boy]

You get the skill points back its just a cbill or mc cost.

[-=Heloc=-]

So, presumably the real world concept that the skill tree is meant to emulate is a pilot getting familiar with the machine and using that familiarity to help the engineers squeak out just a little bit more performance out of certain sub-systems.

This ability to understand the performance of the machine from an engineer's perspective and then relate the observations made back to the engineers in the engineer's language is a huge part of what made Mario Andretti so successful as a race car driver. #themoreyouknow

But once that knowledge is gained it's not lost. Modifications made can be unmade and made again. They have to be in order to repair the 'mech right?

In that light, I could see a nominal c-bill cost but the XP cost doesn't make much sense.

On the other hand, if I've mastered a 'mech and decide to change my build so it necessitates a skill respec, it's likely I've got a bunch of extra 'mech XP that I'm not going to do anything else with.

I also recognize that this whole system creates an incentive to buy extras of a single variant which more 'mech bays, more c-bills, more MC, more demand for premium time,etc. In short, it's a revenue driver for PGI. It's a free-to-play game so I don't begrudge them that, it's kind of their business model.

Really it all just comes down to fine-tuning the cost.

[Daggett]

I totally agree to the OP, the planned system punishes experimentation very hard. Especially if you just want to change only a few nodes but have to reset everything for 2 million and then have to buy all that stuff again for another 9 or so. Not to mention the time it needs to do all this every time you switch a weapon.

And i change weapons frequently in many mechs, for example SRMS and LRMs in mechs like the MadDog. Having such a high price-tag attached to this is absolutely insane...

Lemming of the BDA, on 11 February 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

You get the skill points back its just a cbill or mc cost.

Sure, but this cost is way too high for most players.

Edited by Daggett, 11 February 2017 - 09:39 AM.

[EpyonComet]

I posted this in another of your poll threads before seeing this one, but I think the best solution would be to simply have the game keep track of how much XP and C-bills you have invested in a mech. If you remove a skill, you don't get refunded the C-bills directly, ad they stay attached to the same mech, but you do get to put that investment into one or more other skills, so it's like moving around skill points in an RPG.

Also, while we're dicussing this sort of thing, can we please have Endo/Ferro/Artemis be swappable for free once they are unlocked on a mech? That would be awesome.

[Monkey Lover]

I would like to see nodes open but man I don't look forward to waiting for people to change nodes between matches.

[SirNotlag]

Lemming of the BDA, on 11 February 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

You get the skill points back its just a cbill or mc cost.

I still hate the fact i have to waste c-bills on something that never costed c-bills before, and don't bring up modules I have 90 mechs and only ever bought 4 of each module because i was perfectly fine with swapping them out. The expense for kitting out each and ever one of my mechs now is excessive compared to what it cost before with just changing modules.

[-=Heloc=-]

SirNotlag, on 11 February 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

I still hate the fact i have to waste c-bills on something that never costed c-bills before, and don't bring up modules I have 90 mechs and only ever bought 4 of each module because i was perfectly fine with swapping them out. The expense for kitting out each and ever one of my mechs now is excessive compared to what it cost before with just changing modules.

That's on you, judge the system based on the choices MOST users make, not you. Switching modules around like that is a pain in the *** and I usually end up leaving groups rather than wait for guys like you to hunt down your module 'cause you're switching 'mechs.

I just skilled out a Locust on PTS and it cost 9.1 million c-bills. Now, I think it should be WAY cheaper to respec to switch back to skills you've already acquired but for a first time cost and I think it's fine.

Plus it usually means that if someone is changing builds, they're just changing to a 'mech with a difference build/skill-tree which doesn't take much time at all. If you think I'm going to wait for you to change the build and/or screw around with the skill-tree though, you've got another thing coming.

[Appuagab]

I always liked MWO for a huge depth of customization and if game punishes me for experiments with extra c-bills fees than it just doesn't worth playing anymore.
BTW inability to freely swap between structure/armor/heatsink upgrades once both of them are purchased always felt like a huge issue for my and the only reason I didn't care much about that is that single heatsinks are total garbage and most of mechs have optimal combination of armor/structure. But every time I make a big change in mech's loadout that requires another structure or armor type I say: WHY???

[Dee Eight]

I think the respec should be the same as the current MWO economy where you get a half refund when you sell something you previously bought. So not happy with the node you selected...fine... you only get half the c-bills and XP back from it.

[Talorien]

Why not do this instead:

• Unlock skill *points* instead for each mech (up to 91)
  
• Spend skill points however you like to activate nodes (up to 91).
  
• Respec free anytime

The currently proposed system is a very bad idea, because it erases all your CBill spending when you respec. It's like saying you have to buy new weapons and junk the old ones every time you change your mech's loadout.