34 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Positioning. This game is all about positioning.

In other games even if I am playing dumb all I have to do is pull out the shotgun or other "one shot" weapon. One shot weapons cure many ills.

In this game you play dumb you die.

Yet the tutorial really doesn't teach positioning, firing lanes, lance in formation, etc. Why not?

Maybe someday, right?

[The Lighthouse]

So, how are you going to make the tutorial for positioning? I mean firing lanes and lance in formation, sure, but the positioning is not something you can actually 'teach.'

[Monkey Lover]

Training day #1

"stay in murder ball"

Training over.

[Ultimax]

Ted Wayz, on 12 February 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Positioning. This game is all about positioning.

In other games even if I am playing dumb all I have to do is pull out the shotgun or other "one shot" weapon. One shot weapons cure many ills.

In this game you play dumb you die.

Yet the tutorial really doesn't teach positioning, firing lanes, lance in formation, etc. Why not?

Maybe someday, right?

This is unrealistic to put in a tutorial.

Positioning is at the minimum build & map dependent but also depends on your team.

It represents advanced game knowledge, and tutorials are there to teach the basics - not advanced concepts.

[naterist]

they need to replace that loading screen tips screen with the mechwarrior tactics comic on steam.

this one

https://mwomercs.com...ics-101-comics/

[Snazzy Dragon]

Ted Wayz, on 12 February 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

In other games even if I am playing dumb all I have to do is pull out the shotgun or other "one shot" weapon. One shot weapons cure many ills.

Ahem!

You could always face hug someone in a brawler scorch and one shot some side torsos.

[Ted Wayz]

The Lighthouse, on 12 February 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

So, how are you going to make the tutorial for positioning? I mean firing lanes and lance in formation, sure, but the positioning is not something you can actually 'teach.'

Why not? If you can teach lance in formation (positioning) and firing lanes (again positioning) why can't you extend and show other examples of positioning?

And why do we not have tutorial videos linked as part of the tutorial? Seems kind of obvious.

Snazzy Dragon, on 12 February 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Ahem!

You could always face hug someone in a brawler scorch and one shot some side torsos.

To face hug you need to be able to get in someones face. Tutorial doesn't go into how to approach for a brawl. Why not?

[Deathlike]

The Lighthouse, on 12 February 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

So, how are you going to make the tutorial for positioning? I mean firing lanes and lance in formation, sure, but the positioning is not something you can actually 'teach.'

You can teach it, but it's rather self-awareness of the situation.

It's the difference between understanding "why is everyone shooting at me" vs "why are they set up like that".

Ultimax, on 12 February 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

This is unrealistic to put in a tutorial.

Positioning is at the minimum build & map dependent but also depends on your team.

It represents advanced game knowledge, and tutorials are there to teach the basics - not advanced concepts.

I think it's pretty basic... advanced concepts is really putting many of the base stuff together.

For instance, if you're in the front, and in the middle, chances are you are blocking firing lanes. It's easier to be in the front on the corners of whatever "team formation" because you're not blocking anyone's LOS, though the responsibility of watching the flanks (on the end you are on) becomes more important.

There's also being about to understand between hills and high mounted hardpoints (which some people still can't seem to master).

There's a certain level of basic stuff, but apparently basic stuff is too hard for some people ("gonna do what I want"), so... it's Lostech for people wishing to keep it that way.

Ted Wayz, on 12 February 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

Why not? If you can teach lance in formation (positioning) and firing lanes (again positioning) why can't you extend and show other examples of positioning?

And why do we not have tutorial videos linked as part of the tutorial? Seems kind of obvious.

"Lance is formation" is only being near your teammates in a lance, but that doesn't actually mean you hide directly behind a teammate either.

Quote

To face hug you need to be able to get in someones face. Tutorial doesn't go into how to approach for a brawl. Why not?

A brawl should be kinda natural, but some people think that walking out in the open and somehow you won't take any punishment is supposed to be a thing, but it's not.

There will always be someone that is doing it wrong.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 February 2017 - 01:01 PM.

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 12 February 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

You can teach it, but it's rather self-awareness of the situation.

It's the difference between understanding "why is everyone shooting at me" vs "why are they set up like that".




I think it's pretty basic... advanced concepts is really putting many of the base stuff together.

For instance, if you're in the front, and in the middle, chances are you are blocking firing lanes. It's easier to be in the front on the corners of whatever "team formation" because you're not blocking anyone's LOS, though the responsibility of watching the flanks (on the end you are on) becomes more important.

There's also being about to understand between hills and high mounted hardpoints (which some people still can't seem to master).

There's a certain level of basic stuff, but apparently basic stuff is too hard for some people ("gonna do what I want"), so... it's Lostech for people wishing to keep it that way.

Well, the way it's supposed work is that you are put into buckets with people around your skill level (some same, some slightly better, some slightly worse).

You either learn, improve and move up or you fail, stagnate or move down.


Our xp bar gives progress to potatoes that aren't ripe - some of which never will be.

[Deathlike]

Ultimax, on 12 February 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

Well, the way it's supposed work is that you are put into buckets with people around your skill level (some same, some slightly better, some slightly worse).

You either learn, improve and move up or you fail, stagnate or move down.


Our xp bar gives progress to potatoes that aren't ripe - some of which never will be.

Yea, PSR is screwing people over harder than being carried in groups (in the ELO days).

Just cue Oprah saying "you get moar XP" multiple times. That's PSR in a nutshell.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

In regards to tactical positioning, the following is the best quote I've heard.

Experience is a hard teacher, you get the exam first and learn the lesson afterwards.

[Deathlike]

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 12 February 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

In regards to tactical positioning, the following is the best quote I've heard.

Experience is a hard teacher, you get the exam first and learn the lesson afterwards.

Too bad some people never learn their lessons and blame the teacher by going to their helicopter parents (PGI) and telling them it's the teacher's fault.

Yea, real life is emulated all day every day.

[Nightbird]

Bad mechs exist to make good mechs look good, and you can't fix them by quirking them. Oh wait, we're talking about people?

[Gas Guzzler]

No, you're lying. The TT veteran graybeards have dictated that this is a mindless twitch shooter.

[mouser42]

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=573089143

this is a great guide on steam the person who made it did a really awesome job

Edited by mouser42, 12 February 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Ted Wayz, on 12 February 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Yet the tutorial really doesn't teach positioning, firing lanes, lance in formation, etc. Why not?

Maybe someday, right?

No, not some day. If there's one thing PGI sucks at (amongst the mountain of things it sucks at and can't get right), it's quality of life improvements that make the game less obfuscated and more user friendly. I'd venture to say there have been a large number of experienced video game players new to this franchise that, upon seeing the bare bones ui, the incomplete training tutorial (2017 and how long have clams been out?) and or lack of explaining how your mech or anything is leveled or improved, they uninstalled right then and there. Christ on a Pogo stick some of this **** is so elementary it's sad.
No, this game wasn't designed to appeal or appease anyone, it was coldly concocted in a sterile lab with intent to take advantage of Mechwarrior fans, and Mechwarrior whales, who regardless of the games quality or it's producer's intent will gladly turn around and spread em wide.
Say something PGI!
-Why are Clans not in the tutorial?
-Why is there no global chat?
-why is there ghost heat on some weapons even if not at the GH threshold?
-What is Ghost Heat? Define it in the nonexistent tutorial that showcases hero mechs from 3-4 years ago.
-Why haven't you opened up steam workshop so others can introduce maps?
-Why do I have to quit the game 2 frigging times to get to my desktop (4, if you count dialog balloons)
-How come you haven't gotten involved with the community more? Recent mech design contests submitted on your very forums are a perfect example of missed opportunities.
-If the Skill tree, really isn't smoke and mirrors just to get the greater part of the community's mind off of balance issues, how come there are no active attempts to get players to test it out and provide adequate feedback? IE not like the abject failure of Energy Draw (smoke and mirrors v 1.0)

Oh ya. FIX JUMPJETS!! ADD MORE SHAKE AND BAKE!!
Kk Salt dispenser turned off, honestly in a good mood, just gets my Jimmie's all rustled up when I think about what the MW experience could be like in more caring, capable hands.

Edited by JackalBeast, 12 February 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Man I really have a tendency to kill threads..

I'm like the antithesis of a forumite.

[PhoenixFire55]

The Lighthouse, on 12 February 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

So, how are you going to make the tutorial for positioning? I mean firing lanes and lance in formation, sure, but the positioning is not something you can actually 'teach.'

Thats what baddies think. This thread does it quite well. Its basics, but then again, nearly all complicated stuff is just a combination of those basics.

[PhoenixFire55]

Ted Wayz, on 12 February 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Yet the tutorial really doesn't teach positioning, firing lanes, lance in formation, etc. Why not?

Maybe someday, right?

In order to make a tutorial on doing smth you have to be able to understand it yourself first, which PGI doesn't. They don't have anyone on their team who plays their own game on a sufficient enough skill level. I.e., you have to look into player-made tutorials which obviously aren't in-game ones.

What eludes me tho is why PGI can't link some of the best of it in all possible places that newbs will look into for guidance. Somehow tho I think that overall badness is what they expect and want from an MWO player. After all the less you understand and know about the game the easier it is to sell you the "grand" ideas of "balance" and other whatnot breaking the game along with "great" mechs coming in neverending mechpacks.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Best way to learn tactics is operating with a team. For the extremely short amount of time I did that I picked up a lot. Next I would say in QP is to listen to the shot callers. Sure you get the usual idiots that will put the team on the lone dire far away from the death ball but when you get a real shot caller its glorious and instructive.

Nothing beats experience and all the tactics and doctrine you teach maybe 10% gets placed in the brain for future ref.

One thing though, when I went looking for a team out of about twenty i tried including several I was invited to only one actually welcomed me warts an all. The rest were populated by tryhard power rangers who hurled insults and blamed every loss on the easy target even if your match scores were better than theirs. The one team I ran with that actually wanted one to succeed had the best matches and most wins. So good teams are pretty rare I would say. After that experience I went back to quick play for good.