18 replies to this topic

[BobBagels {ScorpS}]

Hello Hello,
How you guys / Girls doin?

First machine specs,,,,,.....
And Im not complaining about anything, Im trying to figure something out.

Phanteks Enthoo Primo
Rampage V extreme
5930K OC to 4.2 @ 1.18 V 48c max
16 Gb Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4 2400
Swiftech H240 (push pull)
Asus GTX 1080 Gaming Strix
Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVME 512 Gb- O/S
Samsung 850 Pro 512 Gb- Games
WD Caviar Black 1 Tb- Stuff
EVGA 1000 W Platinum 80+
Windows 10
Asus PG 279Q Gsync Res 2560 x 1440

Fairly decent system , right?

BALANCED POWER PLAN
With Gsync off the game will start at a good frame rate 100-110, once in a battle it will drop down to 30 -50 sometimes. Gets choppy.
HIGH PERFORMANCE POWER PLAN (zoooooooom)
With Gsync off the game will start at a good frame rate 250-275, once in a battle it will drop down to 65-100 sometimes.
OK, so of course high performance plan sets everything straight. (for me)
PS- Gysnc seems to make things worse either way.

But here's the thing, I have been monitoring different things.
First- I overclocked the 1080 which helped somewhat, but not enough to justify the OC really .
Second- I know this game is more CPU intensive than anything else, so I have been watching CPU activity. This is a 6 core processor- 12 with Hyper threading on. I see the game seems to only utilize 3 cores ? This might be a reason, Im not sure.

Seems like the only way for me to get smooth game play is in High Performance Power plan, which for me is ok I think, my temps max out at 43c in game, 58c under 100% cpu and memory load stress test.
I know that running at 2560 x 1440 res must be concidered, But im my mind I shouldnt have to run at high performance, something is holding me back.
Its either that or something in the game is not actually using the CPU properly.

Im just trying to figure this out, I have read some other post's here about this, but they are very old post's.

Edited by BobBagels {ScorpS}, 29 January 2017 - 01:35 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Balanced/High Performance is the System's Power Option setting. Several who have reported FPS issues had said they had previously set to HIGH Performance, but after some urging to recheck, they would check it and saw that after some window update, it had been reset to Balanced.


The difference is that Balanced will allow the CPU/GPU underclock.

Quote

What’s the Difference?

Each of these power plans is actually just a different group of settings. Rather than tweak settings one-by-one, though, these “plans” are designed to provide an easy way to switch between common groups of settings. For example:

• Balanced: Balanced automatically increases your CPU’s speed when your computer needs it, and reduces it when it isn’t necessary. This is the default setting, and it should be fine most of the time.
  
• Power Saver: Power Saver attempts to save power by reducing the CPU’s speed all the time and lowering screen brightness, among other similar settings.
  
• High Performance: High Performance mode doesn’t lower your CPU’s speed when it isn’t being used, running it at higher speeds most of the time. It also increases screen brightness. Other components, such as your Wi-Fi or disk drive, may also not go into power-saving modes.

This poster put it in terms that I have observed and the feedback received from other players. As for the wide range of FPS, I would suggest utilizing user.cfg with at least sys_MaxFPS = 75 (set to preference)

Quote

In the advanced options for each power setting, there is a part that says "Processor Power Management".
In this there are three things:
-Minimum Processor State
-System Cooling Policy
-Maximum Processor State

In the "Power Saving" mode, the Minimum is set to 5%.
In "Balanced" mode, the Minimum is set to 50%.
In "High Performance" mode, the minimum is set to 100%.

So, when it comes to performance, I think "High Performance" mode should give the best performance even on a desktop.
Through my testing that I've done quite a bit lately (because I've been wondering this question for quite awhile now), I've come to see no slow downs or lag in most games with "High Performance" mode on.
With "Balanced" mode on, it stutters or slows down slightly every now and then.
And "Power Saving" mode just lags a lot most of the time.

Cores could be parked,
https://bitsum.com/parkcontrol/

What are you to log/observe only 3 cores being used? Try adding this to the user.cfg. Some players are using that who are running AMD FX CPU. It could not hurt.

sys_job_system_max_worker = 6

Edit. FYI, this is not the only game where players noticed the difference between High and Balanced Performance settings.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 29 January 2017 - 04:55 PM.

[PFC Carsten]

First, MWO does not utilize multicore CPUs very efficiently, performance is dependent on one thread mostly (I think it's the in-game physics stuff...). Second: There's a known bug with some mainboards and your make of CPU which makes them clock down into a lower power state way more often than they should (more often though with Asrock boards). Check with your mainboard vendor if there might be an UEFI update that fixes it.

Or, as you already have figured out, stay at high performance power plan while gaming.

[QuickAssassin]

I've got a similar problem, and a similar build to op's. Tried updating GPU drivers, reinstalling game, and the windows installation is only about a month old. I monitored gpu and cpu utilization in-game, and noticed only about 20% of both gpus and about 20% total cpu utilization with about 30 fps. Bumping up to High performance only yielded about 10-15 more fps. Things were ok for the most part until the most recent patch.

Specs:
Asus ROG Rampage V Edition 10
32 GB RAM
6850k @ stock clock (for now)
2x Zotac ArcticStorm, both oc'ed to 2138mhz
OCZ 512GB M.2 NVMe SSD
EVGA 1000 T2
Win 10 Education Ed
LG 34UM95 3440x1440, 60hz
Custom water loop all around

[Gabbatek]

SAME!!!! Game is very unplayable for me, even at high performance. Only a few cores being used and both gpu's usage 40-55% with fps average around 25-50

Tried everything in nvidia control too.

5820k @ 4.2
980ti sli

[BobBagels {ScorpS}]

Hey, Sorry I just got back here, I got called in to work, and when work calls, I gotta go.

Hiya Tarl,
First- I do believe I remember you, from, about a hundred years ago, LOL

AOL / MPBT Solaris
GS / MPBT Solaris
3025
I ran with the Scorpions back then and still do. (about 7 of us still playing together, over 20 years now)

Anyway, THX for the help, I dont wanna start playing around with the cores, I see that its not just me but many people in the same situation which is a real shame.
We put together real nice high end machines and the game that we seem to love so much runs like **** on them. LOL.
Thats almost laughable.
Ahh well,
Im gonna be doing this in March
https://pcpartpicker...ls/saved/yqpmGX
Just cause I wanna. I already have the monitor, (PG279Q) and the 1080 Ti's will be out by then.
But I have my doubts it will help anything in THIS game. I just wanna build it cause I gotta hit that 5 Gig mark LOL

[D V Devnull]

BobBagels {ScorpS}, could you give us a listing of your in-game video settings? There are some which will overtax a system in some areas, regardless of your system's specs, even when you have overhead that could/should have been used anyway.

~D. V. "Software details help..." Devnull

[BobBagels {ScorpS}]

Hi, sure. Mostly everything is set to low or medium.
AA is Post AA
Vsynk is off
Motion blur off

I donno man,
I got a 2600K O/ced to 4.4 with a 780 in it. 1920 x 1080
Gives me the same performance as an
O/C ed 5930K O/Ced to 4.2 with a 1080 in it 2560 x 1440

I know the resolutions are different and that matters ALOT.
But I feel as though something is holding this machine back.

I dont think the cores are parked, I checked resource monitor.
If I put her in High performance power plan the game runs as smooth as silk.

And Thats what I dont get, once the game starts the machine will ramp up to 4.2 (i checked). I still get FPS drops and stutter
Or I can set high performance before the game and get better game play, very smooth.
Either way, during game play its at 4.2 right? (it is, I have checked)
So why should I get better FPS and no stuttering at high performance when either way shes running at 4.2?
Get what I'm saying?

[Tarl Cabot]

BobBagel, way too many late nights way into the early mornings when the SSW were running

So others are aware, your issue is the MWO gaming performance when using BALANCED Performance Power Plan instead of HIGH Performance Power Plan.

Again, the issue is how Microsoft has Balanced and High Performance setup. My question is, why do you not want to run your system at High Performance? FYI, other games that where Balanced Power Plan and the game do not play well together.

The two biggest differences

• Processor Power Management Minimum processor state (Balance @ 5% / High @ 100%)
  
  • CPU - usage drops below threshold, CPU THROTTLES down
• PCI Express / Link State Power Management ( Balanced @ Moderate Power Savings / High @ Off)

Quote

"Newer" CPU's also have a feature called C6 sleep. This became prevalent around Nehalem microarchitecture released in 2008. In Windows, the C6 state is known as Core Parking. Effectively this turns off a core until there is enough sustained demand to warrant re-activating the core. The Power management policy of client Windows (i.e. non-server SKU's), will aggressively try to "park" cores.

So, as a test, Select Balanced then advanced features, change Processor Power Management Minimum processor state to 80% save and test

Now Select High Performance and change Processor Power Management Minimum processor state to 80% save and test.

Do you get the results? Remember, there are other items in each that are different from each other. Change it to 90% for both and test. Drop the minimum down to 50% and test.

Once finished hit the Reset to Default for both Balanced and High Performance.

If you do not want your computer to run @ High Performance all the time, when you are at the window to select High/Balance, go back one to the Control Panel, locate and right click on Power Options then send to Desktop as Shortcut. A quick and easy line to allow you to change the power options without digging down to it.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 02 February 2017 - 04:53 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Missed this one as the discussion was about the system's Power Options. Test - Nvidia Control Panel, Power Management Options, change from adaptive to Max Performance.

For clarification - system's Balanced power setting wGPU set to Adaptive/Max? VS system's High Performance/GPU Adaptive/Max?

Quote

I got a 2600K O/ced to 4.4 with a 780 in it. 1920 x 1080

Gives me the same performance as an
O/C ed 5930K O/Ced to 4.2 with a 1080 in it 2560 x 1440


And Thats what I dont get, once the game starts the machine will ramp up to 4.2 (i checked). I still get FPS drops and stutter
Or I can set high performance before the game and get better game play, very smooth.

Either way, during game play its at 4.2 right? (it is, I have checked)

So why should I get better FPS and no stuttering at high performance when either way shes running at 4.2?
Get what I'm saying?

[BobBagels {ScorpS}]

hello hello,
ok I think I understand, by setting advanced BALANCED power plan minimum to 80% instead of what it is now (5%) should/might do the trick, I have to test this. I can get to it tomorrow, I gotta hit the rack and get to work early tomorrow / am.

Yea man, I remember the SSW, Huggy ran that right? wonder what ever happened to that guy.

[Tarl Cabot]

BobBagels {ScorpS}, on 03 February 2017 - 09:19 PM, said:

hello hello,
ok I think I understand, by setting advanced BALANCED power plan minimum to 80% instead of what it is now (5%) should/might do the trick, I have to test this. I can get to it tomorrow, I gotta hit the rack and get to work early tomorrow / am.

Yea man, I remember the SSW, Huggy ran that right? wonder what ever happened to that guy.

The 80% is to test it. But I had overlooked the Nvidia card and that will also need to be changed by setting a profile for MWO to use Max Performance.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 03 February 2017 - 10:41 PM.

[BobBagels {ScorpS}]

Tarl Cabot, on 03 February 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

The 80% is to test it. But I had overlooked the Nvidia card and that will also need to be changed by setting a profile for MWO to use Max Performance.

Iv'e already set MWO.Exe to High performance in the Nvidia control panel.
Tomorrows my day off, i'll be Bock

[Tarl Cabot]

MWOclient.exe, hai? The MechwarriorOnline.exe (non-steam) is simply the patcher, it does not carry over all the time. And do it for both the Bin64 and Bin32 versions.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 February 2017 - 05:03 PM.

[BobBagels {ScorpS}]

OK, I added the other MWO exe as you said,
TEST
I set "balanced " power plan prosessor state to 80% minimum. Game ran very nice. Average 80-100 FPS.(with gsync on) That also lets the CPU fluctuate as its supposed to.
Set it back to default for now.

Not exactly sure what that means.

Also I have been reading about C states. I am sure mine are enabled right now. I am Over clocked and everywhere I read suggests to turn off ALL C states when overclocking?
(i do not utilize sleep or hibernation at all on this machine)

Edited by BobBagels {ScorpS}, 05 February 2017 - 08:36 PM.

[BobBagels {ScorpS}]

Hello Hello,
Just an update here. I didn't have a lot of time to test further, but I will throughout the week. I dropped a few tonight, set balanced power plan to 70% Min & 100% max. Game ran very nice. Averaged 80-110 FPS constant with Gsync on.
Setting balanced plan this way seems to let the CPU throttle like a regular OC . But somehow also allows the CPU to achieve full throttle faster.
I will test at 60% (and so-on) until I make it low enough to see the best level to run it at.

But I still need info on C States. I think thats where the problem lies. Should they be disabled when Overclocking? If so what does that do? I have been reading about it and there are many opinions about this.

Edited by BobBagels {ScorpS}, 06 February 2017 - 07:56 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

The two biggest differences, and to reiterate and stress (I did not do that enough in previous posts), the Power Management Mode affects everything, CPU, GPU, etc and affects it in different ways.

• Processor Power Management Minimum processor state (Balance @ 5% or High @ 100%) CPU - usage drops below threshold, CPU THROTTLES down
  
• PCI Express / Link State Power Management ( Balanced @ Moderate Power Savings or High @ Off)

See the PCI Express Management above? Balanced Power Settings @ Moderate Power Savings and the minimum 5% usage are linked. The higher the minimum setting the less both GPU and CPU are ramped down and are able to recover more quickly.


If tending on staying with Balanced Power Settings, even though the system is OC, then set to OFF the PCI Express/Link State Power Manage. This will help prevent the GPU from throttling down. This is not the same as the Nvidia Power Management Mode - Max Performance, since it simply ensures the Nvidia GPU is being used and not the CPU's GPU.

Or install Bitsum Lasso, it will activate Bitsum's High Performance when the game is running then set back to your reference when the game is not running.

If you do not want to install a 3rd party program. Make a shortcut to the Power Plan Options to your desktop. When you are able to start MWO, change to High Performance. When done for the day with MWO reset back to Balanced for the rest of your computing needs.

As for C-States, it is how the system handles the system when it is idling down, usage drops below a specific threshold.

https://rog.asus.com...for-CPU-in-BIOS

http://www.dungeoner...es-turbo-boost/

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 07 February 2017 - 10:56 AM.

[BobBagels {ScorpS}]

Walp,
Sometimes is takes me a long loooooong time to learn & notice things.
As it turns out, I was in the game and decided to take a look at my settings.
I noticed the "windowed" option was set to "full windowed" mode
I switched it to "fullscreen" mode and there it is. !! Nice smooth game play, good FPS, all under balanced power plan.

Went to my 2600K machine (which still screams by the way, lol) and same thing, as soon as I switched to "fullscreen" mode , BAM, much better .

So, Heh, Seems I have been running the game in full windowed mode since the start .
And obviously this setting makes a big difference, for me anyways,


SOMEONE, KICK ME, PLEASE !!

https://goo.gl/images/LRY9xC

[Tarl Cabot]

The issue is system related. No need to kick yourself since there should be no real difference between Full Screen and Windowed mode.

Even though the post is old, nor am I able to confirm what power options were being used, For the thread listed and others it was related to system Fast boot, disabling Fast Boot fixed several players problems. Found similar threads for several games over the last few years from WoT, WoW, LOTD, etc

https://forums.gefor...less-low-fps/2/

Simply noting that your "fix" is likely just a workaround for an underlying system issue.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 09 February 2017 - 04:38 PM.