36 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

Okay, Streak LRMs as new tech for Clans is sounding likely.

Now, what i know about these:
- Doubled the weight (Same as IS launchers)
- No Indirect fire (ZELLBRIGEN)
- Doesn't miss (or is very unlikely, I've never seen an SSRM miss)

Now, when I look at these, I look on with concern. LRMs already spread their damage pretty bad, and I expect them to fire in the sequence patter of regular LRMs. No shots will miss, but if it uses the same mechanics as the SSRM, the rounds will randomly target a section. That is to say, a streak LRM with deal 2 damage per component. It will look cool, but that sounds kind of awful.

So I propose that the SLRM doesn't target components, but rather spreads like a normal LRM, but much great accuracy in terms of actual hit. All shots will land within the profile of the mech. The missiles will make little course corrections, curving inward and nicking the outside if they would somehow miss. The shots will cluster towards the torso, but not perfectly. I do expect the velocity to be higher as well.

Man, I hope the cooldown doesn't increase...

As for the other traits I haven't talked about, I don't ind the extra weight or the direct firing. Indirect fire LRMs have terrible hit rates if you're not LoS anyway. The extra weight isn't so bad with clan tech, and if the velocity is increase I wouldn't mind at all. I'll admit I am garbage with LRMs, and even worse with Clan ones, so these might actually convince to put the ears back on one of my venerable Timbies.

[Snazzy Dragon]

I'd rather see regular LRMs completely reworked first, if I'm completely honest.

[Snowbluff]

Snazzy Dragon, on 12 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

I'd rather see regular LRMs completely reworked first, if I'm completely honest.

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

How, though?

But guys... new tech.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

How, though?

There have been so many proposals and suggestions that have come and gone over MWO's lifespan and not a single one has been acknowledged by PGI. All we ever see are damage, spread, and cooldown adjustments. Not once have we seen changes to the core firing and locking mechanics. But the failure of LRMs goes far beyond the weapon system itself. Sensors, target sharing, and the existence of radar deprivation and the ability for anyone with half a brain to use cover even in the cases where they can't break lock contribute. You only ever see LRMs shine in the dumbest scenarios-- where there is no cover (polar highlands). And even then the focus fire from a bunch of LRM mechs is nowhere near as devastating as three pairs of gauss rifles nailing an enemy.

Having a constant trail screaming where you are positioned doesn't help either. At least with ERLL you can win a trade.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 12 February 2017 - 09:50 AM.

[Snowbluff]

Snazzy Dragon, on 12 February 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

There have been so many proposals and suggestions that have come and gone over MWO's lifespan and not a single one has been acknowledged by PGI. All we ever see are damage, spread, and cooldown adjustments. Not once have we seen changes to the core firing and locking mechanics. But the failure of LRMs goes far beyond the weapon system itself. Senors, target sharing, and the existence of radar deprivation and the ability for anyone with half a brain to use cover even in the cases where they can't break lock contribute. You only ever see LRMs shine in the dumbest scenarios-- where there is no cover (polar highlands). And even then the focus fire from a bunch of LRM mechs is nowhere near as devastating as three pairs of gauss rifles nailing an enemy.

Escort on Polar Highlands. *shudders*

[Monkey Lover]

https://youtu.be/waC4DXncwxs?t=290
atm missiles

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

How, though?

Buff los spread and damage.
Nerf none los. Make it spread so much it does "something" but if 4 hiding mechs rain lrms on you it would take forever for you to die.

If the weapon is mainly LOS it will turn more into a skill based weapon and people respect skill weapons.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 February 2017 - 09:50 AM.

[RestosIII]

TBH, I don't care about streak LRMs. I want ATMs over them by a good deal.

[Mcgral18]

Fire and Forget sounds likely


SSRMs are F&F in MWO

[RestosIII]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

I want Thunder and Inferno warheads. And switchable ammo... fat chance of that ever happening, though.

A lot more mechs used ATMs from what I can tell than they used streak LRMs. And ATMs would be a lot more of an "interesting" weapon than streak LRMs in regards to usage.

[Snowbluff]

Monkey Lover, on 12 February 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

https://youtu.be/waC4DXncwxs?t=290
atm missiles

Is it just me, or is this depiction grossly inaccurate?

RestosIII, on 12 February 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

A lot more mechs used ATMs from what I can tell than they used streak LRMs. And ATMs would be a lot more of an "interesting" weapon than streak LRMs in regards to usage.

They would be cooler. They use the streak system, right?

[RestosIII]

Snowbluff, on 12 February 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Is it just me, or is this depiction grossly inaccurate?

They would be cooler. They use the streak system, right?

Considering it has an integrated Artemis system in it, I don't think it would be using the Streak targeting system, no. I'm campaigning for it being a pure LoS missile system, with a low, if not straight, flight arc, with damage drop-off instead of ammo switching, and a very tight spread. (Honestly, my real wish would be for it to fly towards whatever part of the enemy mech you were aiming at when you fired, but I have a feeling PGI won't take the time to do coding that complicated.)

[Snowbluff]

RestosIII, on 12 February 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

Considering it has an integrated Artemis system in it, I don't think it would be using the Streak targeting system, no. I'm campaigning for it being a pure LoS missile system, with a low, if not straight, flight arc, with damage drop-off instead of ammo switching, and a very tight spread. (Honestly, my real wish would be for it to fly towards whatever part of the enemy mech you were aiming at when you fired, but I have a feeling PGI won't take the time to do coding that complicated.)

Honestly,I think I'd rather have the streak LRMs. I think drop off is a weak abstraction, and I'd rather have the ammo switching if we're getting ATM, even if its a workaround.

[Albino Boo]

Snazzy Dragon, on 12 February 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

There have been so many proposals and suggestions that have come and gone over MWO's lifespan and not a single one has been acknowledged by PGI. All we ever see are damage, spread, and cooldown adjustments. Not once have we seen changes to the core firing and locking mechanics. But the failure of LRMs goes far beyond the weapon system itself. Sensors, target sharing, and the existence of radar deprivation and the ability for anyone with half a brain to use cover even in the cases where they can't break lock contribute. You only ever see LRMs shine in the dumbest scenarios-- where there is no cover (polar highlands). And even then the focus fire from a bunch of LRM mechs is nowhere near as devastating as three pairs of gauss rifles nailing an enemy.

Having a constant trail screaming where you are positioned doesn't help either. At least with ERLL you can win a trade.

Every single proposal has been from a limited perspective of the game in tier 1. LRMs are the dominant weapon in t5/4 and reworking them to work versus a point damage team will mean they would be overpowered in the bottom end.

[razenWing]

I don't know about the actual lore, but so far, the logic behind "streak" in ALL the Mechwarrior video games (2, 3, 4, Mechassault 1, 2) is simply that regular SRMs are dumb-fire rockets. "Streaks" just give SRMs tracking ability.

"Streaks" is not synonymous with 100% accurate high maneuverable missiles. Again, this is purely video game logic, the lore might give them unique meaning, but I'm sticking purely to video games.

With that said, LRMs can track as of now. Thus, a "streak" LRM is just redundant.
----------

Now, it can be debated whether such tracking is too strong. But I argue that streaks AS OF NOW, can be shaken, except they are always fire with such close proximity and speed that it's hard to determine whether the tracking really is "too strong."

(Cause, even with a Locust, you are talking about something that goes 6 times your speed at a distance of 200 meters. You are not going to have enough maneuvers in that short amount of time to pull off some amazing maneuvers to dodge them)

I can even argue that LRMs have the same tracking strength as the SSRMs now, except that LRMs are traveling at 500m+ engagement distance with a parabolic curve. That's why you can sort of out maneuver them. (And really, you can't. You can only hope that there's enough time to step behind cover.)

So it's not that LRMs seem to miss more often due to tracking. Fire at a Locust from 100m. I guarantee you that the effect is similar to that of SSRMs, in that all the missiles will impact. (you will do little to no damage due to the nature of 180m damage nerf, but that's another story)

Correction, all the missiles that are SUPPOSED to hit will hit. Because by design, LRM 10+ are supposed to have a certain amount of missiles miss by default. It's extremely stupid. You can check this by simply shooting at a standing target in the training lab. There are also numerous LRM video on youtube explaining this.

So perhaps, LRMs just need to NOT be stupid, and have all the missiles impact with a solid lock. But, that's a solid PGI mechanics problem. Why they decide to have 75% or less of LRM 20 hit a standing target is beyond me.

I'm sorry, but I gotta repeat this in case PGI is reading. THIS IS A F-ING STUPID @SS MECHANICS YOU GUYS PUT IN. IT'S SO DUMB BEYOND COMPREHENSION, THAT'S WHY SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY THINK SSRMS HAVE BETTER LOCKING THAN YOUR DUMB@SS LRMS.

Did I mention how stupid LRMs are?

-------

My conclusion, you don't need streak LRMs. You just need PGI to fix LRMs, and they will function like they are SLRMs.

And LRMs are stupid.

Edited by razenWing, 12 February 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[Snowbluff]

OH? SSRM tracking? I don't know, it seems strong. Sometimes it felt like they would make some insane turns.

Hm... according to Smurfy, the SSRM have lower speed than SRM. Maybe if the SLRMs had the 230 speed instead of the 160 for base LRMs, and better tracking, that would make them an appropriate trade off for the extra weight, and I would take trade off.

[Clydewinder]

Streak LRM should be direct-pursuit long range version of SSRM - no firing arc

[Snowbluff]

Clydewinder, on 12 February 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

Streak LRM should be direct-pursuit long range version of SSRM - no firing arc

Yep, I think that's what the entry means by no indirect fire.

[Hawk819]

As far as I'm aware, only Dark Age `Mechs for the Clans use Streak LRMs. Which means, I seriously doubt we'll get those. However Advanced Tactical Missiles are more likely. I know, they haven't gotten the switch out for LB-x ammo fixed, and I doubt they'll have a switch out for the A.T.M.s as well.

A.T.M.s use Standard, HE and ER types. The community could see three launchers of A.T.M.s for each type of ammo given for the launcher, or they finally figure how to switch the ammo type for the launcher.

In either scenario, the A.T.M. is just one new tech we're getting. Reason is: Clan Variants like the Hellbringer E, and a few others with the E designation. Hey, they're following canon scripture, and so far, you can only find those missiles in the 3100's TROs.

I say this, take a wait and see attitude and then go from there. Maybe, we'll get Streak LRMs, or maybe not. It depends on what PGI wants to do, and how they wish to implement things to their liking. One never knows.

Edited by Hawk819, 12 February 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[Valhallan]

for years we haven't gotten switchable lbx-ammo and most have given up on ever seeing it, so no you clanners don't want to see atm's you won't wanna see the mangled no switch results .

[Bishop Steiner]

Snowbluff, on 12 February 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Okay, Streak LRMs as new tech for Clans is sounding likely.

Now, what i know about these:
- Doubled the weight (Same as IS launchers)
- No Indirect fire (ZELLBRIGEN)
- Doesn't miss (or is very unlikely, I've never seen an SSRM miss)

Now, when I look at these, I look on with concern. LRMs already spread their damage pretty bad, and I expect them to fire in the sequence patter of regular LRMs. No shots will miss, but if it uses the same mechanics as the SSRM, the rounds will randomly target a section. That is to say, a streak LRM with deal 2 damage per component. It will look cool, but that sounds kind of awful.

So I propose that the SLRM doesn't target components, but rather spreads like a normal LRM, but much great accuracy in terms of actual hit. All shots will land within the profile of the mech. The missiles will make little course corrections, curving inward and nicking the outside if they would somehow miss. The shots will cluster towards the torso, but not perfectly. I do expect the velocity to be higher as well.

Man, I hope the cooldown doesn't increase...

As for the other traits I haven't talked about, I don't ind the extra weight or the direct firing. Indirect fire LRMs have terrible hit rates if you're not LoS anyway. The extra weight isn't so bad with clan tech, and if the velocity is increase I wouldn't mind at all. I'll admit I am garbage with LRMs, and even worse with Clan ones, so these might actually convince to put the ears back on one of my venerable Timbies.

why would it be 2 dmg per component? LRMS, even streaks, do 1 dmg per missile.

Also, being back to IS weights, with no indirect fire... are very good things to help with balance. I don't see why they would stream fire. Also, SSRMs miss if you can interpose building,s terrain, etc, I see and do it all the time. With LRM ranges? Unless you are standing in the open, people who try to stream LRM people at 800 meters are in for a lot if disappointment.

In reality, they should act like IS LRMs, without the indirect fire, minimum range, and with a much higher velocity.

If they are found lacking, or OP, then one can adjust spread to compensate.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 February 2017 - 11:58 AM.