38 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

naterist, on 13 February 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

i like em, but that isnt the point. few mechs using stock boat lasers and single heatsinks. they use the, 'all weapons for every range' approach, which could be fun. more lore inducing fun content i say.

The "Jack of All Trades and master of none" is actually one of the worst build types in MWO. You do nothing well, and get exposed from all ranges (depending on the opponent's bracketed build).

Also, the stock Awesome-8Q is mostly inferior to the stock Warhawk-Prime in MWO as well just on the basis of cooling.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 February 2017 - 06:47 AM.

[Stikyard]

MacClearly, on 13 February 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

Do you even play FW? What do you think meta is there? You are also saying that you want to change how the majority of players choose to play the game because you think it would be better your way? If stock mechs were to make sense it would be because the game and especially map sizes would have to be changed dramatically.

I do play Faction from time to time and, I am sad to say it's just QP with respawns. That's why I believe the stock builds could put real balance and BattleTech feel back into the game. Yes, I see the Meta all the time, Kodiak, Marauder, Warhammer... ect.

I want to break up the Meta and see some faction diversity. I think balance could more easily be achieved with stock builds. Giving each Mech a Battle Value and making teams find balance in their drop decks.

Maybe GhostBear would see an increase in numbers if they are the only ones who can use Kodiaks. Keep in mind also that a Kodiak would likely have a high "Battle Value" and only a few teammates could actually take one per match. Top that with incentives to choose low member Factions and you can already imagine a more diverse and balanced gameplay.

[MacClearly]

Stikyard, on 14 February 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

I do play Faction from time to time and, I am sad to say it's just QP with respawns. That's why I believe the stock builds could put real balance and BattleTech feel back into the game. Yes, I see the Meta all the time, Kodiak, Marauder, Warhammer... ect.

I want to break up the Meta and see some faction diversity. I think balance could more easily be achieved with stock builds. Giving each Mech a Battle Value and making teams find balance in their drop decks.

Maybe GhostBear would see an increase in numbers if they are the only ones who can use Kodiaks. Keep in mind also that a Kodiak would likely have a high "Battle Value" and only a few teammates could actually take one per match. Top that with incentives to choose low member Factions and you can already imagine a more diverse and balanced gameplay.

Lol...that's what people asked for and pushed to get!!! Quick play maps because the vast majority of the community is completely opposed to basic teamwork and organising.

I also asked you what you thought the meta was which you seem to confuse with chassis that can carry meta....

Also again what you are imagining is just that. It is not what the majority of players want. It also would not be balanced at all, especially in these maps. You also can't lock Kodiaks away when that is how PGI makes money. If only some people in a one faction could run them...everybody would join that faction. Making it so they couldn't would also be an absolutely terrible idea.

So no driving people away in droves and making a niche game even more niche will absolutely not bring about more diverse gameplay. You already found a stock league, just be happy with that.

[Stikyard]

MacClearly, on 14 February 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

Lol...that's what people asked for and pushed to get!!! Quick play maps because the vast majority of the community is completely opposed to basic teamwork and organising.

I also asked you what you thought the meta was which you seem to confuse with chassis that can carry meta....

Also again what you are imagining is just that. It is not what the majority of players want. It also would not be balanced at all, especially in these maps. You also can't lock Kodiaks away when that is how PGI makes money. If only some people in a one faction could run them...everybody would join that faction. Making it so they couldn't would also be an absolutely terrible idea.

So no driving people away in droves and making a niche game even more niche will absolutely not bring about more diverse gameplay. You already found a stock league, just be happy with that.

The Meta is what it is. Without a battle value system everyone can stack their drop decks with the same four mechs, slap the best build on and repeat. It's lame, it's not how the factions work. Some factions specialize in particular mechs. The maps aren't the problem. The problem is played out min maxing that doesn't reflect anything to do with Faction Warfare.

Every Mech should be a viable choice. Tonnage does nothing to address the fact that certain mechs out preform others. Quick Play should be for the "do whatever" play style. FW should follow the Lore.

You want Factions for what? There's no diversity, nothing unique, just meta spam garbage!

[Carl Vickers]

Stikyard, on 14 February 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

The Meta is what it is. Without a battle value system everyone can stack their drop decks with the same four mechs, slap the best build on and repeat. It's lame, it's not how the factions work. Some factions specialize in particular mechs. The maps aren't the problem. The problem is played out min maxing that doesn't reflect anything to do with Faction Warfare.

Every Mech should be a viable choice. Tonnage does nothing to address the fact that certain mechs out preform others. Quick Play should be for the "do whatever" play style. FW should follow the Lore.

You want Factions for what? There's no diversity, nothing unique, just meta spam garbage!

Meh, Ill make this easy for you, not going to happen. It really is as simple as that. There is no lore enforced game mode in this game unless it is in a private lobby. Thats the way things are.

Sorry to burst your bubble but its time people started accepting reality.

[MacClearly]

Stikyard, on 14 February 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

The Meta is what it is. Without a battle value system everyone can stack their drop decks with the same four mechs, slap the best build on and repeat. It's lame, it's not how the factions work. Some factions specialize in particular mechs. The maps aren't the problem. The problem is played out min maxing that doesn't reflect anything to do with Faction Warfare.

Every Mech should be a viable choice. Tonnage does nothing to address the fact that certain mechs out preform others. Quick Play should be for the "do whatever" play style. FW should follow the Lore.

You want Factions for what? There's no diversity, nothing unique, just meta spam garbage!

You don't like meta...I still don't think you really know what it even is since you refuse to answer a simple question. Right now there is no factions, just Clan vs. IS because of buckets. So no need to worry about how factions work.

You have the opinion that FW should follow lore. That is a minority opinion. You don't comprehend that these maps are less than suited for mixed builds that lore builds have. Can't help you there.

So if you don't like what the majority of other people playing this game are into, that's cool. Just go play something else. There is no way that a small minority should dictate how the rest of us play.

Edited by MacClearly, 14 February 2017 - 08:33 PM.

[naterist]

MacClearly, on 14 February 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

You don't like meta...I still don't think you really know what it even is since you refuse to answer a simple question. Right now there is no factions, just Clan vs. IS because of buckets. So no need to worry about how factions work.

You have the opinion that FW should follow lore. That is a minority opinion. You don't comprehend that these maps are less than suited for mixed builds that lore builds have. Can't help you there.

So if you don't like what the majority of other people playing this game are into, that's cool. Just go play something else. There is no way that a small minority should dictate how the rest of us play.

it really isnt a minority opinion. the 5 guys who troll these forums for a living just bash it a lot to make it seem like a majority doesnt like it.

[justcallme A S H]

naterist, on 14 February 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

it really isnt a minority opinion. the 5 guys who troll these forums for a living just bash it a lot to make it seem like a majority doesnt like it.

Lets test it then.

https://mwomercs.com...ow-lore-or-not/

[Emeraudes]

naterist, on 14 February 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

it really isnt a minority opinion. the 5 guys who troll these forums for a living just bash it a lot to make it seem like a majority doesnt like it.

I can't speak for anyone else but, as a gamer, I want to ensure my win as much as possible. If it balances a specific way, then the Most Effective Tactic Available(META) changes.

If that balance makes it so that your lore based bracket builds and faction specific mechs are the meta, then I'll definitely use it. In the meantime, you can count players like me on the other side.

[Stikyard]

MacClearly, on 14 February 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

You don't like meta...I still don't think you really know what it even is since you refuse to answer a simple question. Right now there is no factions, just Clan vs. IS because of buckets. So no need to worry about how factions work.

You have the opinion that FW should follow lore. That is a minority opinion. You don't comprehend that these maps are less than suited for mixed builds that lore builds have. Can't help you there.

So if you don't like what the majority of other people playing this game are into, that's cool. Just go play something else. There is no way that a small minority should dictate how the rest of us play.

I don't know much about meta builds because I don't play them. I choose Mechs I have always liked and build them to fit my play style. All I can say is I'm tired of KDK-3, Marauder IIC and getting two shotted while they eat everything I throw at them. Just because I don't know the specifics dosen't mean they don't exsist. I'm sure you know better than I do.

You are probably the same type who only wants Invasion maps so you can funnel everyone into a choke point and shoot fish in a barrel. Who want's to worry about flanking anyway?

So, I guess you call balance a slim choice of certain mechs, loaded with weapons you deem good on maps the vets know like the back of their hands. Winning is cool but, having an actual challenge and winning is better.

I understand reservations about stock and it isnt as important as Battle Value. I've brought up Battle Value numerous times to actually address balance. Tonnage does not balance these mechs against each other.

[DarklightCA]

Stikyard, on 15 February 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

I don't know much about meta builds because I don't play them. I choose Mechs I have always liked and build them to fit my play style. All I can say is I'm tired of KDK-3, Marauder IIC and getting two shotted while they eat everything I throw at them. Just because I don't know the specifics dosen't mean they don't exsist. I'm sure you know better than I do.

You are probably the same type who only wants Invasion maps so you can funnel everyone into a choke point and shoot fish in a barrel. Who want's to worry about flanking anyway?

So, I guess you call balance a slim choice of certain mechs, loaded with weapons you deem good on maps the vets know like the back of their hands. Winning is cool but, having an actual challenge and winning is better.

I understand reservations about stock and it isnt as important as Battle Value. I've brought up Battle Value numerous times to actually address balance. Tonnage does not balance these mechs against each other.

You load what you want because that's your choice that the game gave you. However there always has been and will always be builds that are just straight better and it's not the players fault for using what is best.

Edited by DarklightCA, 15 February 2017 - 10:19 AM.

[MacClearly]

naterist, on 14 February 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

it really isnt a minority opinion. the 5 guys who troll these forums for a living just bash it a lot to make it seem like a majority doesnt like it.

LOL...DO ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT!!!

That is asinine on such a high level. There is so much proof out in the wilds of quick play, group queue and faction warfare that your silly conspiracy theory can't be considered seriously.

The only troll here are the few guys who think that they should curb how others play the game with the ideology of what they think it should be.

This game and its meta has evolved from the players who play it. You don't like that is tough. The very idea that you think your ideas should be considered over what the majority of players are absolutely doing whether your tinfoil hat lets you accept it or not, is almost offensive. I say almost because it is so laughable, luckily no one with any sense what so ever would ever consider your ideas legitimate or valid...

[MacClearly]

Stikyard, on 15 February 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

I don't know much about meta builds because I don't play them. I choose Mechs I have always liked and build them to fit my play style. All I can say is I'm tired of KDK-3, Marauder IIC and getting two shotted while they eat everything I throw at them. Just because I don't know the specifics dosen't mean they don't exsist. I'm sure you know better than I do.

You are probably the same type who only wants Invasion maps so you can funnel everyone into a choke point and shoot fish in a barrel. Who want's to worry about flanking anyway?

So, I guess you call balance a slim choice of certain mechs, loaded with weapons you deem good on maps the vets know like the back of their hands. Winning is cool but, having an actual challenge and winning is better.

I understand reservations about stock and it isnt as important as Battle Value. I've brought up Battle Value numerous times to actually address balance. Tonnage does not balance these mechs against each other.

Exactly my point. You don't understand meta so you don't like it. I play quick play all the time and don't always use the current meta (which is ppfld by the way). I do a variety of stuff and favour brawling and skirmishing. If you are tired of a couple mechs blowing you apart the problem again is back in your court. While they are top mechs and there is always going to be top mechs, there are plenty of ways to bring them down. I don't die to them more than any other mech because I know to not try and face tank them, it's not that hard.

As far as Invasion maps go I do like them. The whole strategy is how to get through those choke points amongst other things. Take a step back however and think really hard if you were going to place a big and important cannon somewhere if you would place it out in the open or would you put it in a strong defensive postion? Think hard about that. Most people who hate these maps have not had success and generally they are untagged pugs. There is a reason for this.

You seem to think you know what is or isn't a challenge for people. No what you have is an opinion. FW seems to be so challenging that most stay away because of getting roflstomped so much. You also seem to be unable to grasp that there is lots going on besides meta in FW and there is a variety of mechs used. Some mechs are more common but again there is still tons of people playing different mechs there. I still use a Jester because I love it and do well with it. It is not meta.

Despite your views on tonnage it seems to have made a big difference when it comes to pugs vs. pugs. Most decent units don't have to worry about it too much and can compensate using tactics suited to the tech base.

You have an opinion here and it seems to be a strong one. Yet you don't seem to really have a strong grasp and what is going on ground level. The other major issue is you are bringing up limiting what people can do with their mechs. A huge appeal of this game is the vast customization that you can do. The very idea of removing that is never going to go over well.

[MischiefSC]

There is always a meta. There would be a meta with stock mechs and it would be even more critical because most mechs would be so incredibly terrible.

BV didn't balance TT and it wouldn't be a better balance in MWO. The idea that 8 v 12 or 10 v 12 is somehow "easier" to balance is another false assumption.

We would all love more variety and depth in FW. No question. Have fought for it and been denied from day 1. Things like bonuses to using factions specific mechs, etc.

Meta really is just "whatever works best". Saying you "hate the meta and don't use it" is literally saying you don't like what works best and don't want to understand it - how, in turn, can you then make good decisions on balance?

Builds that have seperate weapons for different ranges will always be inferior to dedicated builds. You're shooting 1/3 of your firepower most the time, I'm using 100%. It was bad in TT too.

The only thing limiting mech customization will do is further limit what the good mechs to play are. It will also further widen the gap between good and bad players, leading to more stomps.

There isn't a way that direction would go that would turn out well. It's fun for a one-off, sure. Not as a dedicated gamemode.

[Hawk819]

Stikyard, on 13 February 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

I've recently stumbled apon a group of people playing private matches with "stock" mechs. These builds are coming straight out of lore books and puts the feel and balance back into a game that has become all about "meta" mechs and boating.

I think Faction warfare would greatly benefit from a "stock" feature and puts balance back into the hands of the devs. I imagine it working as simply as being able to choose any mech you currently own but, it would be retrofitted back to a "stock" build.

Faction Warfare is supposed to take a more story based feel and many people complain that its very bland. Imagine your chosen faction actually determining what types of mechs are available. Certain factions specialize in specific mechs. A lot of the personal flavors we all wanted in faction warfare could be achieved by removing the rediculous "meta boating". Its all good and fun for quickplay but, I really believe the hardcore Mech fans would find the "stock" option offers much more variety, balance and, overall fun!

PGI should be paying attention to how these guys are running and balancing these stock teams. They are even able to run campaign style stories just by recording their progress and tracking what is available to their faction. I just feel like we have Quick Play for tinkering and meta boating... Can we do something else with FW please?

FINALLY! I've said this privately, and I truly believe it should be apart of the game when it comes to faction warfare. Meta has no place in faction warfare whatsoever. I never read how the Clans used a single machine with just one weapon system, i.e. 7 er large lasers on a Timber Wolf; perhaps, four at the most, and that's on the Dark Age Hero for the Spirit Cats line. Seriously, Stock should be locked, or added as an option. I'm for Stock as far as I'm concerned, however, the community does feel differently than I do. So I say let us, the players, choose which option we want. Again, Meta has no place in Faction Warfare in as far as I'm concerned, and that's just me alone, and solely my opinion. And we should be allowed to choose which way we want to go.

Besides, with the Supernova making its graceful entrance into the game, why wouldn't anyone not use a stock Clan `Mech? I mean, the damned thing has six. . . SIX!. . . ER Large Lasers for Pete's Sake!

[Carl Vickers]

Woah, tier 4 player above with no idea what he is talking about alert.

[Vxheous]

Hawk819, on 15 February 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

FINALLY! I've said this privately, and I truly believe it should be apart of the game when it comes to faction warfare. Meta has no place in faction warfare whatsoever. I never read how the Clans used a single machine with just one weapon system, i.e. 7 er large lasers on a Timber Wolf; perhaps, four at the most, and that's on the Dark Age Hero for the Spirit Cats line. Seriously, Stock should be locked, or added as an option. I'm for Stock as far as I'm concerned, however, the community does feel differently than I do. So I say let us, the players, choose which option we want. Again, Meta has no place in Faction Warfare in as far as I'm concerned, and that's just me alone, and solely my opinion. And we should be allowed to choose which way we want to go.

Besides, with the Supernova making its graceful entrance into the game, why wouldn't anyone not use a stock Clan `Mech? I mean, the damned thing has six. . . SIX!. . . ER Large Lasers for Pete's Sake!

Please show me this meta 7 CERLL Timberwolf that you speak of. Im betting if i put two of those + a 7 CERLL ebon and a lrm 30 arctic cheetah in my dropdeck, I too can achieve clan pug <150 damage immortality

Edit: Using smurfy, I have created this meta Timberwolf. I feel that if I were to take this into a game, I could achieve TimberStar status ala TheB33F: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...82ff763984e0074

Edit 2: Ahh f*ck it, if I'm going to go out in a blaze of glory, why stop at 7CERLL, go the full 9!! (it's over 9000!): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...30820f7d580cfd7

Edit 3: This deck should actually allow someone to hopefully break 300 damage. 9 CERLL = 99 damage x 3 after insta explosion...means you only need 3 lrm missiles to hit

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 17 February 2017 - 01:12 AM.

[Khereg]

Let's take a niche mode of a niche game and further restrict it with niche builds.

Have fun with the other 5 people interested in playing this at any given time.

Oh, and you'll see the same 3 best (aka "meta") stock builds every match. Enjoi.

[justcallme A S H]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 February 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Please show me this meta 7 CERLL Timberwolf that you speak of. Im betting if i put two of those + a 7 CERLL ebon and a lrm 30 arctic cheetah in my dropdeck, I too can achieve clan pug <150 damage immortality

See here we have a T4 PUGLord in his natural habitat


ie: He has absolutely no bloody clue and, obviously, runs LRM boats.