21 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

so its been nearly a Full Month since last Patch,
when the SHC lost 7 Structure to each arm & each leg,

So how do they feel now?
Do you find them in a good Place or do they need another look?
are you finding them easier to face or does it not matter much to you?

1/24/17 Patch Notes(HERE)
Clan Quirks Notes(HERE)

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks

[MOBAjobg]

It's quite a tough fight against a SHC when I pilot a SMN-F(L) previously. I no longer fear the pussycat after the patch.

[Pariah Devalis]

My arms and legs can vaporize in a heartbeat. Considering all my guns are in my arms, and I'm too squishy if I stop moving....



That said, it can still hit fairly hard if left alone. It can push out threat in a brawl fit, but outside of that it is an annoyance at best. The problem is it vaporizes if given any attention. Something other 45 ton mechs with structure don't quite do.

[Monkey Lover]

I stopped using mine just like i stopped using the viper. I look forward to the skill tree to get some armor in the legs/arms again.

[Aiden Skye]

12 hp taken off legs - 7 from CT quirk, 5 from b leg omnipods. 16 hp taken off left torso armor and structure. That's huge. It still works well as long has no one decides to give you their undivided attention...but outside of that it's far too soft given how hot it runs with so little fire power. Really doesn't take much to destroy an arm or leg. They weren't breaking the game before, this nerf needs to be reverted.

[Duke Nedo]

Sure, revert all nefs since April last year, perhaps we get more mechs closer to HBK-IIc/NGR/KDK-3 in performance.

[Andi Nagasia]

Duke Nedo, on 13 February 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

Sure, revert all nefs since April last year, perhaps we get more mechs closer to HBK-IIc/NGR/KDK-3 in performance.

im sure we can agree the SHC shares the same problems as the VND & PHX,
they are good mechs that many llike, but arnt really Meta, and perhaps need some help,

perhaps the SHC was over preforming when it came to other 45Tonners,
but perhaps also those other mechs, the VND & PHX, should be buffed as well,
rather than reducing Structure on the SHC, increasing it on the VND & PHX?

[Ilsen]

Pretty fragile & sluggish.

I can do well In it with some heavy masc micro.
But It leaves small margin for an error.

[Natred]

Been insta killed a couple times in it since the patch, even while torso twisting due to ct damage. Its center torso is still visable even at a perpendicular angle. Also took leg damage due to the jump jet, corner of building launch you 100 meters in the air bug.

Posted on fourms about arm convergence after letting go of jump jets during flight and they fixed it seems. Thank you by the way.

Overall this mech shines in the hands of a skilled pilot, not going to be breaking 1000 damage in it probobly anymore like i did when back when large pulse laser range was 1000m. The only reason its good is because of its agility, without that and ecm it would be an ice ferret with jump jets.

[Pariah Devalis]

Natred, on 14 February 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

Overall this mech shines in the hands of a skilled pilot, not going to be breaking 1000 damage in it probobly anymore like i did when back when large pulse laser range was 1000m. The only reason its good is because of its agility, without that and ecm it would be an ice ferret with jump jets.

Yep. If you can keep the enemy off balance, you can use MASC and strange attack angles to tear bigger enemies to pieces. If they get a hold of you, though, and all that takes is one momentary slip up or a bit of bad luck, you're lucky if you are only badly damaged.

That said, if they are going to prevent the mech from having structure quirks, at least let it function as a glass cannon. Provide an extra missile hardpoint for the left torso (non-ECM LT option), or an extra energy hardpoint for each arm (2E arms), or a pair of energy in the left torso (non-ECM LT option), or, preferably, a combination of the three. Make the mech have options so that it can hit hard enough to compensate for the lack of durability. I'm fine with the concept of glass cannon, but right now it's more like a glass BB gun.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 14 February 2017 - 10:21 AM.

[panzer1b]

Honestly i dont understand the reasoning behind this nerf...

For starters, i dont think anyone here could honestly go out and say the shadowcat was OP or even near a competitive level. It was alot of fun, lots of people played it (and still do), and it was not exactly worthless either, but it just wasnt really the same after the LPL nerf from way back (lets face it, the only truly strong loadout on the thing was the 2 LPLs and the nerf limiting their use to like maximum of ~700m (you could fire past that but its not practical due to the extremely harsh damage falloff of that weapon in its current form) really cut the capabilities of the SHC to a mid range build which kinda forces it to take more fire from everything (easier to spot, most weapons can and will hurt it at 600m) much more then it would back when you could hit stuff at 900m for a reasonable amount of dmg.

Another thing the armor nerf did is considerably benefit the erppc loadout (which is what i heard the most complaining about and seems to be at least one of the reasons for the supposed nerf). With less armor, you cannot afford to show your face for teh full duration of a clan laser weapon (unless you are willing to die), and the ppcs are the only weapon that allows true fire and forget gameplay (along with being arguably more effective then a laser build from the get go). Basically the only thing this nerf did is punish laser and brawling loadouts, while doing absolutely nothing to stop ppc spam (which i have to say is the most reliable and effective loadout in any game that doesnt end super quickly). PPC boaters just poke/jump and unload 20 dmg in an instant, then shielding or simply ducking behind cover, while lasers have to stare for 1-1.5s depending on teh weapons and will almost always take fire during this time.

All in all, the nerf has the least effect on PPC loadouts (i could prolly strip half the damn armor off and still be capable of using the ppc version), and the second least effect on ERLL boats (most of those relied upon sitting way back in the rear and simply outranging the competition). It almost completely neutered brawler shadowcats (the one thing the SHC never did well from teh get go despite being really fun), and it nerfed the one true meta build, 2 LPLs (with optional erml) since it severely limited the ability to trade or sheidl yourself, and against a team that is semi aware of you, its not exactly easy to get free damage in without taking any fire in return. I just dont get it, if PPCs were OP they should have nerfed those alone and not everything else which was already subpar (especially after the LPL range nerfs)...

[Dogstar]

SHC still has ECM and jump jets making it a super easy poptart, I'm glad they'll finally actually take some damage

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dogstar, on 14 February 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

SHC still has ECM and jump jets making it a super easy poptart

Except the HBK-IIC-A is better.

[Andi Nagasia]

Dogstar, on 14 February 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

SHC still has ECM and jump jets making it a super easy poptart, I'm glad they'll finally actually take some damage

but with no PPC quirks its paying Full(30) heat for only 20damage(Yes splash but that doesnt always matter),

a SHC(+4DHSs), firing 2PPCs will jump up to 45% heat on a heat neutral map(first shot)
if you fire again as soon as possible(4-6 seconds) you will jump up to 70% heat(second shot)
if you fire again as soon as possible(4-6 seconds) you will jump up to 95% heat(third shot)
at this point you have to wait to 10seconds till you can fire again back up to 95% heat
you have to wait to 23seconds till you are back to 0% heat,
(all this assumes you dont use your JJ)

if you use your JJ,
a SHC(+4DHSs), firing 2PPCs wail jumping will push you up 45% heat on a heat neutral map(first shot)
if you fire again as soon as possible(6-10 seconds) you will jump up to 70% heat(second shot)
if you fire again as soon as possible(6-10 seconds) you will jump up to 95% heat(third shot)
at this point you have to wait to 10seconds till you can fire again back up to 95% heat
you have to wait to 23seconds(NO Jumping) till you are back to 0% heat,

as JJ stops your Heat from Droping and as a PopTart SHC not having any back up weapons,
if you get caught out of place too far from allies you have the problem where you cant use your JJ & defend your self,

[Deathlike]

Ice Fridge is still better.

Shadowcat has fallen further than the Phoenix Hawk (arms don't fall off as easily now, which is the obvious difference), leaving it to be the 2nd worst of the 45 tonners (Vindicator still the worst - of all mediums even).

The Shadowcat simply cannot handle real aggro.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 February 2017 - 04:04 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Sigh. They keep saying they want to increase mech diversity.

Would someone please explain how their dedicated and consistent nerfing of bad and middling mechs is going to increase diversity? Is it that they trying to increase the diversity of mechs that aren't played? Is that the goal here? Is the shadowcat nerf designed to give my Enforcer 5P some company? Or make sure the Firestarters have a friend to play with in the back of the garage? Maybe give the Grasshopper 5J someone to feel superior to?

Seriously I don't get it.

[Aiden Skye]

I feel this is appropriate for the moment

[Natred]

If the shadow cat had some laser or energy heat quirks it would help. Couple more missle pods, and or energy slots on the torsos would be nice. Also unlockable masc and jump jets...

[justcallme A S H]

Deathlike, on 14 February 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Ice Fridge is still better.

Shadowcat has fallen further than the Phoenix Hawk (arms don't fall off as easily now, which is the obvious difference), leaving it to be the 2nd worst of the 45 tonners (Vindicator still the worst - of all mediums even).

The Shadowcat simply cannot handle real aggro.

Yeah but the SHC has never really been a mech you put into agro spots because it's not that heat efficient.

It's a harass mech, gotta abuse the MASC etc.


I still run my SHC. I've noticed no real different even when brawling in it. I think ECM means most people (QP/FP etc) just ignore for the most part. No idea why, if ignored it can cause big problems.

[Duke Nedo]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 February 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

im sure we can agree the SHC shares the same problems as the VND & PHX,
they are good mechs that many llike, but arnt really Meta, and perhaps need some help,

perhaps the SHC was over preforming when it came to other 45Tonners,
but perhaps also those other mechs, the VND & PHX, should be buffed as well,
rather than reducing Structure on the SHC, increasing it on the VND & PHX?

You can't compare the SHC to Vindicators mate. When I mastered by SHCs it was completely without quirks and they did perfectly fine for a 45 tonner IMO, either with 2x cERPPC or 2x cLPL and ECM. I was serious though, I don't think it needed any nerfs, but neither did any of the other mechs that were nerfed repeatedly since April until now. You could IMHO safely undo all of the last years nerfs to IS mechs and NGR/KDK-3/HBK-IIc-A/SMN-M/ACH/JR7-IIc would still be the best mechs around. I would seriously like to try that on the PTS:

About the SHC though, I have said this many times. What is holding this mech back is the lack of E hardpoints. IF they in the future release any pod which makes one or two more E hardpoints available, this mech will become a monster. That's one reason to be a little conservative with quirks, or you have the loyalty Summoner situation all over again.

Edited by Duke Nedo, 14 February 2017 - 11:52 PM.