62 replies to this topic

[ccrider]

MischiefSC, on 16 February 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

You know, trashing someone for a page of posts for being wrong isn't necessary.

Unless it's Russ.

Holy **** I'm a Clammer.

Get all the linebackers. Especially the D. Run around at 105 spraying Srms or small pulse lasers and machine guns at people. Cackle maniacally while doing so. That is the way of a trueborn warrior.

[justcallme A S H]

MischiefSC, on 16 February 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

You know, trashing someone for a page of posts for being wrong isn't necessary.

Unless it's Russ.

Holy **** I'm a Clammer.

Trash me, or the majority - I'll trash you back with some fact. It's all fair in love and war.

Hopefully it also sounds the siren on absurd claims as truth. I can't stand for delusion misleading people.

That said, agree. Point well and truly proven now, you filthy clanner.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 16 February 2017 - 06:57 PM.

[Fuerchtenichts]

sad

[rolly]

justcallme A S H, on 16 February 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

It proves exactly what I said in my, to the point, poll.

People don't want stock mechs in FP. There is no "majority". There is no "we all think". naterist is constantly touting of late that he speaks for some "majority" - it is just made up delusions, it does not exist. Simple as that. It's been proven exactly for what it is, rubbish.

"People don't want"? You don't even have a sample population OR the demographic data for the population of the entire game to use the word "people" or majority.

Get real. It proves or disproves nothing. It's entertainment and maybe comfort for you to couch your view point.

You might as well ask 5 of your best friends what they think for all this matters. Get some real stats to back up your claim then have it peer reviewed. Otherwise its laughable if you think this poll or you analysis backs your hypothesis much less your conclusion.

[Emeraudes]

rolly, on 17 February 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

"People don't want"? You don't even have a sample population OR the demographic data for the population of the entire game to use the word "people" or majority.

Get real. It proves or disproves nothing. It's entertainment and maybe comfort for you to couch your view point.

You might as well ask 5 of your best friends what they think for all this matters. Get some real stats to back up your claim then have it peer reviewed. Otherwise its laughable if you think this poll or you analysis backs your hypothesis much less your conclusion.

Maybe you lack the understanding to realise he's talking about the stock mechs as per the current state of the game while you and naterist are talking about an imaginary system where stock mechs are workable.

To back his argument, simply play any game as it is now and count the number of stock mechs you see in matches. I can't claim to play in every timezone against every person but I'm pretty sure I only see stock mechs when people are so desperate to play their mechs, they bring it to the fight unmodified.

Actually I'll throw your argument back at you, where's your proof of claim? Where are these people who so desperately want lore builds in the game as it is? I've read 3 weeks of reddit posts and haven't seen widespread mention. No threads relevant are long lasting and the concept isn't in demand.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

MischiefSC, on 15 February 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

That has nothing to do with trying to force players to only take stock builds and eliminating the point of the mechbay, customization and cementing poor balance and design decisions into gameplay.

Who said trying to force players to only take stock builds?
It said should stock mechs have a place in FP, not ONLY stock mechs for FP.
I'd personally would like to see a stock mode in FP, no more 24x minmaxed "gid gud" edition kdk-3 vs. "i only has 4 bays and 2 mechs".
Remember that a lot of FP visitors come for the mechbays, just because they are new players in need of mechbays. Let them play stock and be good. Ofc, folks who want to have a challenge farm newbs in trial/basic mechs for c-bills will very vocally disagree here.

[MischiefSC]

Great hyperbole. I've seen 24x KDK3/BLR2c/similar matches maybe 1 in 100 drops? 200? If even?

It's incredibly rare for even competitive minded premade teams to have a pure meta dropdeck.

There's no reason to split FW, which is a whole concept that has no relation to alternate "stock mech" modes. Sure, if there's enough players interested in it then sure. QP or respawn modes or whatever. New game modes are good.

It shouldn't be associated with winning worlds in FW however as balance in it would be way worse than existing balance. Might be fun for a one off sometimes though.

[KingCobra]

Poll question #1 yes but lore should have been a bigger part of MWO from day 1 but its hard to implement a lore based league with the poorly built private drop system. It (our private game system )should have been like the MechWarrior4 multiplayer system.

Poll question #2 yes and no to do a stock game mode right it would have to be done in solo MM and CW/FW as a game mode. And it would have been better if PGI had left the check box game mode selector in the game.

Poll question #3 only if we had a Co-op game mode with actual objectives MWO is poorly suited for this question as it lacks any originality in character creation for players ETC.

Poll question #4 From Day 1 of MWO's existence there should have been split queues in Solaris style play and Planetary the game would have retained more new players-Pugs and Casual players and groups could have had there own Hard Core Game modes Group Vs Group only.

Edited by KingCobra, 17 February 2017 - 02:27 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

MischiefSC, on 17 February 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

Great hyperbole. I've seen 24x KDK3/BLR2c/similar matches maybe 1 in 100 drops? 200? If even?

It's incredibly rare for even competitive minded premade teams to have a pure meta dropdeck.

Yes, hype clarifies. Is a bunch of nightgyrs, summoners and hunchy IIC A more to your liking?
Min/maxed meta decks are common for premades. It's not as bad as a year ago, where you could tell the whole command deck just by looking at the unit tag (anyone remembers BO and their SRM charge?).
I am just saying that that a stockmode would even the field a little. Granted, the better "team" would very likely win anyways, tho, i think it would be a far more enjoyable match for everyone.
I personally think that we must get away from the old "FP is endgame for elite premades". It has shown that said premades are not enough to keep FP alive by a long shot.

I think a stockmode, if well implemented, could very well have a place in FP, maybe a revival of the call to arms (solo) but with a dedicated stockdropdeck. It might draw in folks who skip on FP for all the known reasons. Skittles VS focus fire, random vs meta decks. pug vs premade, elited vs stock.

I also don't see as to why it should not take impact on winning worlds. Why should meta 12 man premade vs 12 pugs in trial'mechs take effect on it but 12 stock vs 12 stock don't.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 17 February 2017 - 03:36 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 17 February 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Yes, hype clarifies. Is a bunch of nightgyrs, summoners and hunchy IIC A more to your liking?
Min/maxed meta decks are common for premades. It's not as bad as a year ago, where you could tell the whole command deck just by looking at the unit tag (anyone remembers BO and their SRM charge?).
I am just saying that that a stockmode would even the field a little. Granted, the better "team" would very likely win anyways, tho, i think i would be a far more enjoyable match for everyone.
I personally think that we must get away from the old "FP is endgame for elite premades". It has shown that said premades are not enough to keep FP alive by a long shot.
I think a stockmode, if well implemented, could very well have a place in FP, maybe a revival of the call to arms (solo) but with a dedicated stockdropdeck. It might draw in folks who skip on FP for all the known reasons. Skittles VS focus fire, random vs meta decks. pug vs premade, elited vs stock.
I also don't see as to why it should not take impact on winning worlds. Why should meta 12 man premade vs 12 pugs in trial'mechs take effect on it but 12 stock vs 12 stock don't.
[color=#212121]hype clarifies[/color]

Sorry man but incorrect. Even in stock mechs, teams who use teamwork will still dominate. The mechs dont matter as much when teamwork is on the field.

Stock mechs are for the most part pure garbage.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 17 February 2017 - 03:38 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Carl Vickers, on 17 February 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

Sorry man but incorrect. Even in stock mechs, teams who use teamwork will still dominate. The mechs dont matter as much when teamwork is on the field.

Toha Heavy Industries, on 17 February 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

I am just saying that that a stockmode would even the field a little. Granted, the better "team" would very likely win anyways, tho, i think it would be a far more enjoyable match for everyone.

overlooked, eh?

[Carl Vickers]

Nope, considering what the rest of your post said. It was the opposite of those 2 lines.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 17 February 2017 - 05:33 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Carl Vickers, on 17 February 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

Nope, considering what the rest of you post said. It was the opposite of those 2 lines.

Then just for you to clarify.
What do you think resembles more of a closer match.

Skittles with random mechs vs premades with minmaxed meta decks
or
skittles in stock mechs vs premades in stock mechs.

Besides, missed the suggestion for a solo call to arms stock mode for FP entirely.

It isn't only superior teamwork and pilotskills, preparations also have a hug say in the outcome of a match.
Simply knowing that your team can go on a brawl on grim is a huge advantage.
Try to coordinate a pick up group in less then a minute after you know which map you drop on, good luck.

I still think a stockmode is worth a shot, and i don't see a reason to defend the current system over it since both won't hardly compete with oneanother. Folks who would be interested in a closer matchup already stick to matchmaking quickplay games anyways.
Imo, if we stick to "FP is endgame for the bigboys" FP will yet again bleed out quickly.

[Carl Vickers]

Stock mechs or meta mech, no matter which you choose a premade is going to beat the other team of pugs no matter the mechs.

The only thing stocks will give the pugs is a thought in their head that they can actually win, for all of 2 matches.

Your opinion is in the minority and you are welcome to it. At one stage of the game I thought stock mechs were the go, why have a mech lab at all, then I learned mech lab fu, so much more fun with full customization.

FP will bleed out at the same rate stock mechs or otherwise due to pugs and teams, teams smash pugs and pugs leave. Teams find less games and leave. Immersion is the key and what is really missing from FP to make it great.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 18 February 2017 - 02:26 AM.

[Emeraudes]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 17 February 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Then just for you to clarify.
What do you think resembles more of a closer match.

Skittles with random mechs vs premades with minmaxed meta decks
or
skittles in stock mechs vs premades in stock mechs.

Besides, missed the suggestion for a solo call to arms stock mode for FP entirely.

It isn't only superior teamwork and pilotskills, preparations also have a hug say in the outcome of a match.
Simply knowing that your team can go on a brawl on grim is a huge advantage.
Try to coordinate a pick up group in less then a minute after you know which map you drop on, good luck.

I still think a stockmode is worth a shot, and i don't see a reason to defend the current system over it since both won't hardly compete with oneanother. Folks who would be interested in a closer matchup already stick to matchmaking quickplay games anyways.
Imo, if we stick to "FP is endgame for the bigboys" FP will yet again bleed out quickly.

Ok so calling for stock mechs mainly will also draw upon IS champion mechs to be used over most other stocks. I'll see people drop mc for all these mechs and you'll only see them in matches. On the clan front it'll be whatever has the equivalent of this. So how much better will it be when it is directed towards pay to win?

[Sjorpha]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 17 February 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Then just for you to clarify.
What do you think resembles more of a closer match.

Skittles with random mechs vs premades with minmaxed meta decks
or
skittles in stock mechs vs premades in stock mechs

Stock matches would be even more imbalanced actually. Good players would understand which stock mschs are good and bad players wouldn't.

It's a general rule in game theory that limitations and increased complexity amplifies skill gaps. Stock modes would lead to harder stomps.

Compare constructed vs limited formats in magic the gathering for example, even though the limited formats draft and sealed are technically "equal footing" they are still much harder for newbies to win.

[Neput Z34]

Limit drop decks by combination of Battle Value or Tonnage and C-Bill value, or all of the criteria?

Oh who am I kidding, IS vs. Clan tech balance is "still ongoing".
( description is as polite and politically correct as possible, in other words, substitute four letter "filtered" words to accurately describe the problem/ result )

[Daidachi]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 17 February 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

Who said trying to force players to only take stock builds?
It said should stock mechs have a place in FP, not ONLY stock mechs for FP.
I'd personally would like to see a stock mode in FP, no more 24x minmaxed "gid gud" edition kdk-3 vs. "i only has 4 bays and 2 mechs".
Remember that a lot of FP visitors come for the mechbays, just because they are new players in need of mechbays. Let them play stock and be good. Ofc, folks who want to have a challenge farm newbs in trial/basic mechs for c-bills will very vocally disagree here.

Tbh, a lot of the 'bad builds' I've seen both for and against have been players customising their mechs.

LRM's on mechs that can't run enough ammo to last through a fight, machine guns on direwolves, multiple weapon types that have no synergy whatsoever (ERL, MPL and ERM for example), and the pilot desperately trying to use them all outside of the ranges/burn times they were designed for.

Edit: and some of those types of mechs are just outright bad at certain roles, stock or otherwise. A dire wolf turns like an extra out of a Nicki Minaj video clip, so will always struggle to twist well in a brawl for example.

I really like the fact that the stock option is in place for lobbies, and I've seen some great work done by some very passionate players to run the refusal war scenario.

But as a player, that doesn't interest me as being the limit of FW. I like looking at what's considered the meta. I like tinkering in the mechlab, with music playing in the background - it's relaxing. I like working out combinations of mechs that complement each other effectively for the maps and game modes being played, especially now that the quick play maps have been thrown into the mix. Theorycraft is in a lot of ways more fun than the game itself for me (hint: I am not a particularly good pilot, but I can usually do enough to not embarrass myself completely).

Edited by Daidachi, 18 February 2017 - 09:06 AM.

[DoctorDetroit]

I vote for whatever option adds interesting gameplay value to CW/FP while banning bad players from being allowed in.

Edited by DoctorDetroit, 20 February 2017 - 06:18 AM.

[DarklightCA]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 17 February 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Then just for you to clarify.
What do you think resembles more of a closer match.

Skittles with random mechs vs premades with minmaxed meta decks
or
skittles in stock mechs vs premades in stock mechs.

Besides, missed the suggestion for a solo call to arms stock mode for FP entirely.

It isn't only superior teamwork and pilotskills, preparations also have a hug say in the outcome of a match.
Simply knowing that your team can go on a brawl on grim is a huge advantage.
Try to coordinate a pick up group in less then a minute after you know which map you drop on, good luck.

I still think a stockmode is worth a shot, and i don't see a reason to defend the current system over it since both won't hardly compete with oneanother. Folks who would be interested in a closer matchup already stick to matchmaking quickplay games anyways.
Imo, if we stick to "FP is endgame for the bigboys" FP will yet again bleed out quickly.

The problem with your statement which is the general problem with Faction Play actually is that you can't balance skill. Groups will always win because they are coordinated and skilled grouped will always dominate everybody. Even if you got rid of groups it would still be down to skilled players beating those same skittle players.

Skittles can't have good games in Faction Play because they chose to enter a environment that very much puts them at a huge disadvantage. If you want to play against less groups and players of more equal skill grouping, I am pretty sure there is already a queue designed like that and it's not Faction Play.