38 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Snazzy Dragon, on 18 February 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

I love wasting damage in solo queue just to blast their arms off and see them hop around looking like a fish.

just remember...some fish?

bite back.

[Bishop Steiner]

Maurice Thorez, on 18 February 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

I think most of your assessment is spot on. I have not bought the pack myself, but on paper their inability to boat certain types of weapons and tendancy to lean towards mixed builds limits them. This seems to play out in practice too with the builds I see.

The BSW-P1 seems to be the best build due to the 6 missile hard points it can use for SRM4s. The 4 left side missile hard points appear to cluster well and you can stagger your fire with the right side tubes to mitigate ghost heat. Unfortunately, using that build almost forces you into equipping an XL to get a full loadout of SRM4s or taking Artemis with a mix of tubes. I cannot imagine a STD engine vesion of that build being anywhere near as viable due to the cooling and firepower it would lose. Honestly though, the Griffin and a few other IS mechs can boat SRMs quite a bit better and with STD engines too.

I think its' biggest issue is that I find it very easy to XL check and the 10 structure just does not do enough to stop that. I have been playing mostly HBKs and a BJ-3 since the release and I have felt confident enough against them to play aggressively or push against them in most instances without much concern. I think if they were to get a buff, receiving some additional structure in some or all torsos(5-8 points) would be a big help.

That said, I will certainly be getting them later when they come out for C-bill release. They look like a very fun platform to play a large variety of laser/missile, ballistic/laser, and even ballistic/missile mixed builds on. Really feels like it could be the reverse of the Crab in terms of customisation.

BSW-P1
seems fine with a STD engine.... IS SRM4 really don't need Artemis to group well. Same token, one could probably jsut mount aSRM6x4 in the Torsos, and be a similar or tighter cluster, sans GH.
BSW-P1
Though I'd have to test the grouping on both to be sure. The second one is certainly a LOT cooler running, the first has a much faster second volley.

Probably Not, on 18 February 2017 - 06:00 PM, said:

I honestly wish the AC arm didn't have that clunky looking grabby-hand on it. It looks incredibly dumb. Also, it probably means that there's that much more crit space being taken up by a hand actuator, which is teats-on-a-bull useless.

whelp, in the TT game they drew the robot from, the hand was there, and useful... so blame TT for that.

[Maurice Thorez]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 February 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

BSW-P1
seems fine with a STD engine.... IS SRM4 really don't need Artemis to group well. Same token, one could probably jsut mount aSRM6x4 in the Torsos, and be a similar or tighter cluster, sans GH.
BSW-P1
Though I'd have to test the grouping on both to be sure. The second one is certainly a LOT cooler running, the first has a much faster second volley.


whelp, in the TT game they drew the robot from, the hand was there, and useful... so blame TT for that.

Fair enough on the builds. It is why theory crafting is never a substitute for playing the real thing. I was partially being blinded by trying to max out usage of the 6 missile hardpoints.

That 4 SRM6 build does look viable. Albeit, I am not sure all the SRM launchers would be in the same good high mounts across the board that a Griffin does. I am actually surprised I have not seen that build in matches yet, at least from what I can recall(I am maxed out tier 1).

[Bishop Steiner]

Maurice Thorez, on 18 February 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

Fair enough on the builds. It is why theory crafting is never a substitute for playing the real thing. I was partially being blinded by trying to max out usage of the 6 missile hardpoints.

That 4 SRM6 build does look viable. Albeit, I am not sure all the SRM launchers would be in the same good high mounts across the board that a Griffin does. I am actually surprised I have not seen that build in matches yet, at least from what I can recall(I am maxed out tier 1).

Naw, the GRF is the better SRM bomber, no doubt about it. JJs, Quirks and on one model, ECM, see to that. Plus easy to pack a pair of Flamers in the RA of the 2N for stun locking Clanners in Scout Mode.

That's one reason the Reinforcements didn't really appeal to me, though I think if we get Light ACs, the High Holler could be fun.

Of course, as an alternative, I am very much hoping next month's Assassin will fill the role of high speed MadBomber. Big engine, JJs and quad torso SRM4 on the 21, with a pair of MLasers (I don't think Flamers to be ideal for it's mobile role and lighter armor, but we'll see) is, on paper anyhow, a very fun alternate to the Oxide.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 February 2017 - 06:21 PM.

[Maurice Thorez]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 February 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

Naw, the GRF is the better SRM bomber, no doubt about it. JJs, Quirks and on one model, ECM, see to that. Plus easy to pack a pair of Flamers in the RA of the 2N for stun locking Clanners in Scout Mode.

That's one reason the Reinforcements didn't really appeal to me, though I think if we get Light ACs, the High Holler could be fun.

Of course, as an alternative, I am very much hoping next month's Assassin will fill the role of high speed MadBomber. Big engine, JJs and quad torso SRM4 on the 21, with a pair of MLasers (I don't think Flamers to be ideal for it's mobile role and lighter armor, but we'll see) is, on paper anyhow, a very fun alternate to the Oxide.

Yeah, the Assassin is another one I am looking forward for too for what it can potentially bring to the table in terms of variety of playstyle. Light ballistics and possibly MRMs could do wonders for giving some more alternatives to underused IS lights and mediums. MRMs seem especially intriguing for getting some use of that single missile hardpoint on certain mech variants which often is left unused as of now.

[Bishop Steiner]

Maurice Thorez, on 18 February 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

Yeah, the Assassin is another one I am looking forward for too for what it can potentially bring to the table in terms of variety of playstyle. Light ballistics and possibly MRMs could do wonders for giving some more alternatives to underused IS lights and mediums. MRMs seem especially intriguing for getting some use of that single missile hardpoint on certain mech variants which often is left unused as of now.

My biggest hope for MRMs are for making mechs with single Missile Hardpoints, like VNDs, more viable, by giving them significant punch with that hardpoint.

If we do get Light ACs, that opens up some options, too.

[Tarogato]

I don't own them.

They're still one of the easiest mechs for me to kill when I see them. Usually two alphas from fresh and they're either dead or left on a sliver of red XL.

[WolvesX]

Yup MRMs will be (if the implementation doesn't suck) a great addition.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 18 February 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

I don't own them.

They're still one of the easiest mechs for me to kill when I see them. Usually two alphas from fresh and they're either dead or left on a sliver of red XL.

ain't skeered

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Tarogato, on 18 February 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

I don't own them. They're still one of the easiest mechs for me to kill when I see them. Usually two alphas from fresh and they're either dead or left on a sliver of red XL.

I've KDK3'ed the bugger and it's survived (probably due to the odd shape). Frankly it's survivability scares me a bit no matter what mech I am in.

It seems to look like the freak of MWO but I am actually really appreciating it on the battlefield. I hope it sticks around.

[TercieI]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 February 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

Yes, that's going to be the standard Tier 1 response. Not a shock. Still digging in my heels every chance I get to avoid being forced into such "rarefied" air......

Give me some credit, Bishop. I like some mechs because they're simply fun or unique (I dig PXHs for instance). Nothing the BSW does even looks prticularly fun or interesting to me. Super effective isn't my only test.

Edited by TercieI, 19 February 2017 - 06:40 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Tarogato, on 18 February 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

I don't own them.

They're still one of the easiest mechs for me to kill when I see them. Usually two alphas from fresh and they're either dead or left on a sliver of red XL.

Ditto. But I will say as an observer and opponent of them, that they seem squishier than other chicken walkers. Every one. When their player is foolish enough to present a side torso, they're toast...nearly every time. Seems a more consistent guaranteed kill than any other chicken walker in the game, even XL crabs. Only data I have to back this up is that I as a terribad have a KDR above 1 only since the release of the BW. I look for em now and they don't disappoint. Thank you Bushwhacker, thank you.





Now enjoy your incoming structure and armor quirks.

[Pariah Devalis]

I can only post from the standpoint of one who fights them, as opposed to one who plays them. Offensively, in most configurations they are no more threatening than other mediums of their weight. Front on, they spread damage extremely well, but side on, unless the arms take the hits, those side torsos eat a lot of fire. The low slung arms do well to shield the legs from the sides, as well, so you have a mech that from the front has a tanky torso and easy legs, but from the side you have tanky legs but easy side torsos.

The only configuration and setting where I'm a bit nervous when I see a Bushy is the all splat build in Scouting mode. It can output a significant amount of damage in a very short space of time, with a low cooldown period between shots. Clan SRM, even with Artemis, will not cleanly hit any one torso section front on, and from the side the arms will suck up some of the missile fire as well. SLas and SPLas would still be effective, but there has been a large uptick in the number of Flamers that IS pilots are bringing, making it fairly risky. Besides which, front on even the laser builds are unlikely to be so precise against a torso twisting bushy in a brawl, while you yourself are trying to move and mitigate damage yourself.

Of course, the Achilles heel of the Splat build of the Bushy are those missile pod side torso protrusions, which does make it a little more susceptible to side torso isolation. Dangerous given it uses an XL, but front on not any worse than a Grif with those trash cans on its shoulders. It seems a solid enough competitor in Scouting mode, anyways.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 February 2017 - 07:59 AM.

[jjm1]

They would be fun if my opponents were also mixed builds. I always feel like I'm at too much of a disadvantage having to juggle two or three weapon types against a Laser/AC/SRM boat.

Thanks to its shape, its surprisingly survivable in a fight though, unless your opponent is Deadshot in a laser boat and hits nothing but your CT.

[BigBenn]

I like it. Well balanced, not "too" anything, imo.

I really wish PGI would adopt quirks based on a traditional weapons a variant has vs using a quirk for an entire class. The Bushwackers should all have a quirk for the LRM 5 (velocity), and AC10 (range or cool down). The Warhammer 6R should have a quirk for the SRM6 (range), etc, etc.

My High Roller is armed with an AC10, a LL, 3 ML, 2 MG's, and an SRM6. Ammo is 1/2 ton for MG's and SRM6 and they are only used in point blank situations vs belly rubbers (hardly ever against light mechs). I put an 280XL engine in it.

My 2nd favorite variant is the X2, I think. I put a Std engine in it and keep trying different load outs. Its always fun because most people think the Bushwacker is going to automatically have an XL engine it so when I'm still there pounding away and enemy mechs are scratching their heads thinking "I just took out the side torso it should have gone boom", I've sent another volley or two of AC10, ML, and/or missiles their way.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 19 February 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

I can only post from the standpoint of one who fights them, as opposed to one who plays them. Offensively, in most configurations they are no more threatening than other mediums of their weight. Front on, they spread damage extremely well, but side on, unless the arms take the hits, those side torsos eat a lot of fire. The low slung arms do well to shield the legs from the sides, as well, so you have a mech that from the front has a tanky torso and easy legs, but from the side you have tanky legs but easy side torsos.

The only configuration and setting where I'm a bit nervous when I see a Bushy is the all splat build in Scouting mode. It can output a significant amount of damage in a very short space of time, with a low cooldown period between shots. Clan SRM, even with Artemis, will not cleanly hit any one torso section front on, and from the side the arms will suck up some of the missile fire as well. SLas and SPLas would still be effective, but there has been a large uptick in the number of Flamers that IS pilots are bringing, making it fairly risky. Besides which, front on even the laser builds are unlikely to be so precise against a torso twisting bushy in a brawl, while you yourself are trying to move and mitigate damage yourself.

Of course, the Achilles heel of the Splat build of the Bushy are those missile pod side torso protrusions, which does make it a little more susceptible to side torso isolation. Dangerous given it uses an XL, but front on not any worse than a Grif with those trash cans on its shoulders. It seems a solid enough competitor in Scouting mode, anyways.

BSW-S2

[Sunstruck]

I think the Bushwacker has its own unique place in IS mediums, the best performer in my experience is my X2 with 3AC2, 2 Med laser, or two Med Pulse.

I also use the P1 as a light killer with 4Streak2, 2SRM4, Tag, XL350 and it works great at that role. My X1 is ok with 2UAC5, 2SRM6. I've seen people do well with two AC10s.

The only build I could see making it into MRBC is the 6SRM6 P1, or 6SRM4 Artemis P1. The lack of jumpjets still gives the Shadowhawk an edge.

They're fun mechs though you can try out a lot of different builds on them for a medium. The legs could use a small armor buff, like +3 at least.

[Sunstruck]

If your having problems, check out this build it has good heat management, and a slim frontal profile without the SRMs, good for face tanking.

[Metus regem]

They've become my go to mechanical in quick play, it seems to respond well as a second line skirmisher, that does 'shoot and scoot' fairly well. The flaw for them is that if you don't pay attention to the ebb and flow of battle, you are going to be caught **** in hand exposed on your flanks and die.