22 replies to this topic

[TooDumbToQuit]

I'm not sure if it will help or not.

[Larry Frank]

I don't.

would rather use another module in it's place.

though I guess if you knew you were going to loose the component that the ECM is in, then maybe having the Radar derp module would help, not sure where that module is installed.

also if you're going to be in close, where ECM is no good, maybe

[knight-of-ni]

For me, it comes down to whether or not there is some other module I'd rather take along in the ECM equipped mech... and there usually is.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Well, I know that Mechs with ECM "can" be targeted.

But I'm also asking for the future because in the PTS, if you want to make your ECM Mech into a "Scout"(Scout with a capital S), he can add Radar Derp etc.

If the PTS was online I'd get a picture of possibilities.

One interesting thing about the "new way" is that it will bring real Scouting to the game.

knnniggett, on 20 February 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

For me, it comes down to whether or not there is some other module I'd rather take along in the ECM equipped mech... and there usually is.

It is those dang ones like a Locust that has 3 slots, lol.

[Rogue Jedi]

breaking a lock 3 seconds faster.

you can still get locked if you have ECM.

[Boulangerie]

It's really only helpful if your ECM is being countered by BAP/CAP and you go behind some cover (but still in range). It will help you drop off the radar faster. That said, I'd say take another module if you have one unlocked and available. If you have the slot available, throw it on for the marginal improvement.

Oh, and I guess you could run your ECM in counter mode, and still drop off the radar faster as well, so if you use counter a lot, you won't be as vulnerable to LRM support if you are dogfighting in an area with lots of cover (like river city for example).

[TooDumbToQuit]

Rogue Jedi, on 20 February 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

breaking a lock 3 seconds faster.

you can still get locked if you have ECM.

HA, thanks

Boulangerie, on 20 February 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

It's really only helpful if your ECM is being countered by BAP/CAP and you go behind some cover (but still in range). It will help you drop off the radar faster. That said, I'd say take another module if you have one unlocked and available. If you have the slot available, throw it on for the marginal improvement.

Oh, and I guess you could run your ECM in counter mode, and still drop off the radar faster as well, so if you use counter a lot, you won't be as vulnerable to LRM support if you are dogfighting in an area with lots of cover (like river city for example).

I like it

[Tier5 Kerensky]

As module, not really. ECM will occasionally break from PPCs and UEVs, but really, just about any other module would be more useful. Counter ECM is pretty rare. Maybe a close range brawler might be exception, if you got two module slots, or three as some have(seismic and radar derp)


For new system, quite likely useful, as you likely want to develope most of that branch anyway, so you will only need to select the particular skills as extra. Same thing for target delay(the normal one not 360 degree one), it's only few skill points but it can be useful as long as you know how to press R. Likely not full 5 points on the target delay, but maybe one or two.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Teer Kerensky, on 20 February 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

As module, not really. ECM will occasionally break from PPCs and UEVs, but really, just about any other module would be more useful. Counter ECM is pretty rare. Maybe a close range brawler might be exception, if you got two module slots, or three as some have(seismic and radar derp)


For new system, quite likely useful, as you likely want to develope most of that branch anyway, so you will only need to select the particular skills as extra. Same thing for target delay(the normal one not 360 degree one), it's only few skill points but it can be useful as long as you know how to press R. Likely not full 5 points on the target delay, but maybe one or two.

The only mech at the moment I'd use it in is the Pirate's Bane. It has three Mech slots and oddly, 3 weapon ones, lol. And the idea of Radar Derp helping just a little in hit and runs raids seems like a plus.

But yes, the future Scout will have Adv Target Display(useful in poking) 360 targeting, extra sensor range, target info gathering etc.

One thing that I found a little confusing was that I had to pay in Skill Nodes for my ECM to work.

[Snazzy Dragon]

The noise radar dep makes when you drop a lockon is invaluable if you know how to capitalize on it.

Denying paper doll is always helpful for keeping your internal bits a little longer.

[Void Angel]

Yes; yes there is. Because there are a lot of things that cancel ECM now, from (ER)PPC hits to UAVs to Clanner Active Probes (and the inevitable Streak/LRM spam that accompanies them.)

Radar Deprivation is optional with ECM, but by no means useless.

[Jables McBarty]

Boulangerie, on 20 February 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

It's really only helpful if your ECM is being countered by BAP/CAP and you go behind some cover (but still in range). It will help you drop off the radar faster. That said, I'd say take another module if you have one unlocked and available. If you have the slot available, throw it on for the marginal improvement.

Oh, and I guess you could run your ECM in counter mode, and still drop off the radar faster as well, so if you use counter a lot, you won't be as vulnerable to LRM support if you are dogfighting in an area with lots of cover (like river city for example).

I'll add that ECM does nothing if your enemy is within 90m, whereas Derp still breaks the lock if you run behind cover.

So if you are trying to evade an enemy in close quarters, Derp is still very useful (think ACH and LCT-PB)

[Xaat Xuun]

with the new skill tree, depending how much you are willing to spend, you can have everything (sensor modules),

Almost do if you're just after max Radar derp bonuses (just 17 SP used) spend another 2 SP, and have max Enhance ECM, spend additional 2 SP and you'll have Max Seismic Sensor, spend another 2 SP, and now you have Advance Zoom, So now you'll have every module. [Note: not everything will be Max though]
(this is something I haven't tried to do, but maybe will see once the changed Skill tree arrives in PTS, and the Sensor tree was unchanged)

For me I find Sensor range is more important as a Scout, then Radar Deprivation, I want to spot them, before they see me, depending on the map, that's very handy, But again that's my thinking and works for me, Also I want to know if any one is going wide to try a Flank.
With the new Sensor Skill tree, I'll get it all, looking forward to gaining more modules, then just having 2 (3 on a couple mechs)

I see the points mentioned to having Radar derp on a ECM mech, and have no argument against them

[S 0 L E N Y A]

considering
- the current meta heavily favors PPCs
- PPCs cancel out the effects of ECM

Then I would say yes it makes sense.

Obviously, ECM and Radar Derp or not, you still never want to stray that far from cover for any considerable period of time.

[JENNER llC]

like others said the noise made by dropped lockons is invaluable, that alone is worth it stacked with ecm

[Tesunie]

LikeUntoGod, on 20 February 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

I'm not sure if it will help or not.

I would. In very few situations would I not recommend Radar Deprivation over another possible module. (Which I feel is an indicator as to why it's unbalanced and needs to be looked at if it was to stay.)

Even with ECM, Radar Deprivation can be extremely helpful. As others have said, it is still possible to get locks, and with Radar Dep on your mech, you will break a lock just that much easier. TAG can break ECM, or UAV, in a manner where you can be under ECM but be lockable. Then there is BAP or another ECM that can shut down your ECM, and breaking a lock faster there may be what keeps enemy LRMs or even some SSRMs from stripping you or even giving you your death blow.

Really though, it's up to you. Some people place ECM with AMS to help teammates. Other people feel AMS is useless with ECM, because of the difficulty of enemies getting a lock and feel the AMS is wasted. If you feel you don't need Radar Dep when you have ECM, than don't bother with it. Seismic Sensors is another really useful module. Adv Target Decay may even be a consideration (depending upon the build). Etc.

[invernomuto]

LikeUntoGod, on 20 February 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

Well, I know that Mechs with ECM "can" be targeted.

But I'm also asking for the future because in the PTS, if you want to make your ECM Mech into a "Scout"(Scout with a capital S), he can add Radar Derp etc.

If the PTS was online I'd get a picture of possibilities.

One interesting thing about the "new way" is that it will bring real Scouting to the game.

Could you please explain this part (unfortunately I didn't have the time to test the new skill tree on the PST server)?
Thanks!

Edited by invernomuto, 22 February 2017 - 02:39 AM.

[Xaat Xuun]

with the new sensor skill tree, to max your ECM, you are going to have or can have, Max Radar derp, and Max sensor range, and that's with 18 Skill points, you can include Max Seismic Sensor for another 3 SP.
it's probably going to be the skill tree, that a pilot will spend the most SP at, specially if you are wanting max radar derp.
LRM boat pilots, will probably get everything but adv zoom from that tree, I wouldn't doubt many pilots will spend 19-23 SP in that tree.
It was the one skill tree unchanged in this coming update to the new skill tree for PTS

oh and to just reach Max Radar derp you're also going to be 1 SP short of Max Target Info Gathering

TLDR: With the new skill tree, you'll have more then just 2 mech modules, So no "Hmmmm, should I get radar derp, or Seismic Sensor", in the new skill tree you will hav'em all, if you're willing to spend the SP to get them, and kinda a no choice but get them all, if you want max Radar derp

[Rogue Jedi]

invernomuto, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 AM, said:

Could you please explain this part (unfortunately I didn't have the time to test the new skill tree on the PST server)?
Thanks!

in the PTS there were no modules (except consumables) what the modules did were tied into the skill tree, that means you could potentialy have the functionality of 10 modules on the Mech, for example, if I remember correctly, the sensors tree included 5 levels each of radar deprivation, 360 target retention, siesmic sensors, target decay and sensor range, unlocking them all would take about 40 of your 91 total unlocks, because of other stuff you had to unlock to get to some of the nodes but you could get them all, same as the weapons trees, mobility trees, etc.

unfortunately we do not know how many iterations will go on the PTS before it is implemented into the game, and thus do not know what changes are likely to be made, the PTS should reopen on Friday with a new iteration.

[Xaat Xuun]

Rogue Jedi, on 22 February 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

, unlocking them all would take about 40 of your 91 total unlocks,

just a little correction about the numbers

it's 27 total for the sensor tree
I have an image of the sensor tree, but it's not mine, so can't post it to show

Advance Zoom = 1
ECM = 2
Radar Deprivation = 5
Sensor Range = 5
Seismic Sensor = 2
Target Info Gathering = 5
Target decay = 5
Target Retention = 2

found a image I can post

Edited by Xaat Xuun, 22 February 2017 - 05:15 AM.