7 replies to this topic

[AccessTime]

I'd like to see a skill tree that would allow mixed-tech designs, ie. a IS mech able to equip a clan XL engine or the clan forms of Endo Steel, Ferro Fibrosis, that take less space, or clan double heatsinks instead of IS double heatsinks.

Even if it were expensive in terms of points, no matter how you look at it, these techs just aren't balanced, ie. Clan Endo Steel is just plain better than IS Endo Steel.

I realize IS Ultralight engines might be coming with the new tech, but that's still a ways off and not really equal to clan tech.

Just give us some real choices and tradeoffs, also this would allow for things like hero mechs that have these nodes already unlocked and have a clan component in their stock loadout.

[FupDup]

AccessTime, on 25 February 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

Just give us some real choices and tradeoffs...

The issue here is that most of the items in question, e.g. Clan Endo/FF/XL/DHS, aren't real choices or trade-offs. You would effectively make this branch of the skill tree be 100% mandatory on all IS mechs, turning them into reskinned Clan mechs basically.

It would be better to keep the tech bases segregated and just balance the items themselves.

[AccessTime]

The choice is to pay the skill points and get ability to use the item, or be able to spend the skill points elsewhere. Unlocking each of these items might require spending all your skill points for that variant which precludes you from spending them anywhere else like the survival skill tree (probably the most useful in the last PTR).

Not every design needs or would even benefit from this, there are plenty of lights or mediums, even some heavy loadouts that can equip both the IS Endo/FF and still be good builds. And there are some heavies and assaults that just don't need the extra tonnage. So I don't think everyone would take it provided the rest of the skill tree is still beneficial.

[FupDup]

AccessTime, on 25 February 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

The choice is to pay the skill points and get ability to use the item, or be able to spend the skill points elsewhere. Unlocking each of these items might require spending all your skill points for that variant which precludes you from spending them anywhere else like the survival skill tree (probably the most useful in the last PTR).

Not every design needs or would even benefit from this, there are plenty of lights or mediums, even some heavy loadouts that can equip both the IS Endo/FF and still be good builds. And there are some heavies and assaults that just don't need the extra tonnage. So I don't think everyone would take it provided the rest of the skill tree is still beneficial.

It's not a real "choice" though because the amount of impact that this tech makes is vastly higher than the impact of any skill nodes.

[Bellum Dominum]

FupDup, on 25 February 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

It's not a real "choice" though because the amount of impact that this tech makes is vastly higher than the impact of any skill nodes.

While I agree that it's not a good idea I do have to say that done correctly the ability to equip clan tech could be balanced by the skill tree. IE On an IS mech you can go into a skill tree that allows you to equip Clan medium pulse. Sound over powered and would be IF you also got access to the Clan skill tree but you shouldn't. Also that 'clan access' skill tree could be a higher cost than your other IS skill tree choices which would mean not only are you not getting any 'quirks/module effects' for those clan weapons but you are also shortening yourself for your IS skills.

So it could be done in order to 'balance' it.. but I don't really think anyone would want to take those penalties so it really wouldn't hardly see use. I wouldn't have a problem with it being implemented in this fashion for those that just want to do something silly but I don't think it is needed at all.

Edited by Bellum Dominum, 25 February 2017 - 08:43 PM.

[AccessTime]

Bellum Dominum, on 25 February 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

Also that 'clan access' skill tree could be a higher cost than your other IS skill tree choices which would mean not only are you not getting any 'quirks/module effects' for those clan weapons but you are also shortening yourself for your IS skills.

I don't know if you'd get many takers for clan weapons, that's why I didn't include that in my post.
But it would have to be many skill points to balance regardless, ie. 10 or 20 for a weapon class. But the things people would actually want, ie. 25 points to equip clan ES, 15 for FF and 50 for the XL engine. So you'd have to spend 90 points, or almost all your allowed skill points, in order to get them all.

Edited by AccessTime, 25 February 2017 - 08:55 PM.

[Skribs]

AccessTime, on 25 February 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

I don't know if you'd get many takers for clan weapons, that's why I didn't include that in my post.
But it would have to be many skill points to balance regardless, ie. 10 or 20 for a weapon class. But the things people would actually want, ie. 25 points to equip clan ES, 15 for FF and 50 for the XL engine. So you'd have to spend 90 points, or almost all your allowed skill points, in order to get them all.

Depends on the weapon.

SSRM4/6, UAC2/10/20, LBX20 are all good weapons unavailable to IS. Clan lasers and ER PPCs do a lot more damage. Pretty much all weapons aside from small/medium lasers and ER PPCs are cheaper in tonnage and slots on clan. I think the Gauss is about the only thing that doesn't have a benefit from clan.

I'd love to have access to ER MLs on my Spider 5D, clan MGs on my Firestarter, clan LRMs on my Trebuchet 5N, clan SRM6s on my Dragon 1N. I'd love to have clan SSRMs on any Mech I want to use to hunt lights.

[Taxxian]

Well mixed tech would solve many of the balancing problems all at once, with or without skill pints to invest.

I think its ok, it was ok in MW4 and who did not love MW4?

But on the other hand the new tech should at least partly resolve the same issues so we should give it a chance... its only 3 month of waiting^^