90 replies to this topic

[xWiredx]

Aaaaand the reviews are here.

The 1800X lags behind the Kaby Lake unlocked chips in 1080p gaming even though it is more expensive. That's probably all anybody really wanted to know, just wanted to get it out there.

In 4K resolution, though, because everything is so much more heavily GPU-bound, Ryzen keeps pace very well with Kaby Lake. Again, though, that is a scenario where the GPU strength is the problem, not the CPU, so it doesn't say as much.

The good news is that it really does do well at CPU-bound things and will definitely be a worthy chip for MWO. It's also good at synthetic tests, though we are surely all aware of how useless that can be. It does use slightly less energy, though, which is also a net positive.

As for overclocking, it looks like we're not seeing a whole lot of spectacular results yet. Though once Overclockers members get their hands on them, we might start to see some more interesting results. Still, right now, in addition to being cheaper than an 1800X, the 7700K and 7600K overclock better, which gives them even more distance from the 1800X in gaming.

I think if AMD had managed to get lower-tier Ryzen chips out at launch, too, it would have been an excellent recommendation for budget gaming machines. Unfortunately, with the high-end chips being in the same price range as unlocked Kaby Lake chips (region depending, of course), it looks like there isn't much reason to recommend them for gaming. For workstations, though, absolutely. They look like excellent workstation chips (and personal VM lab chips).

[Dr Cara Carcass]

xWiredx, on 02 March 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

To be fair, yeah, ninjitsu only wanted to know who's grabbing one and details on overclocking. My mind immediately goes to 'why are we overclocking' though so performance is a thing that comes out.

In either case, no, 48fps is not fluid. It's not the worst thing ever, but it definitely, without a doubt, is not fluid. Again, I can already tell you there are thread upon thread from other fanboys testing their 8350s at 5GhZ showing dips all the way to 0fps (yes, zero) with MWO on very high at 1080p. We already have the evidence. It's documented. It's still floating around here in the forum.

We've already shown how bad AMD chips pre-Ryzen perform in this game, and we've already shown how MWO scales with cores (it doesn't beyond 4 at all). The only reason you see a difference with more from an AMD chip is because the chip is so weak that more cores means more background processing is able to be done in order to not interfere with the game thread processing. Haswell-E people, for instance, do not see the same behavior because their chips' IPC isn't an abomination unto mankind like Bulldozer and Piledriver.

When people defend those high-power, low-performance chips harder than AMD does, you know there's a break in their logic. Even AMD is like "our bad, sorry bro, those things suck but we're gonna make it better with Zen". Do yourself a favor and run FRAPS while playing MWO on that 8350 box, then look at the CSV files. You'll notice that it isn't anywhere near fluid and you'll notice FPS dips down to 0 even when your average is somewhere between 30 and 60. It's a choppy mess in MWO. For other games its not nearly as bad, but for MWO it's pretty awful.

48 FPS is fluent. The problem are microstutters, when the 48 frames are created in the first hafl second and the last half second is just stuck. If you get 48 FPS evenly spread out over a second practically nobody exept a feew freeks of nature can tell that its single pictures. The dips to 0 are a few peoples problem. I havent witnessed them beeing AMD specific watching the game on 4 different systems. When the framerate dropped to 0 in later games, the whole team was like wait what was that. All with different setups beeing from amd and intel. I am not saying that that teh FX8530 is a good cpu or what ever i just say that its enough to run the game fluently. And again wee looked at it on a brand new installed system - no skype no streaming no nothing going on. Just the game and windows running. 2 extra cores gave about 20 fps extra going from 30-50 fps to 50-70 thats 66% on the low side and 40% on teh high side. thats more than then 33% you would expect just from extra cores. This happened. Dont say the extra cores dont have a effect on the game. That statement is simply wrong. You practically explained it yourself. The main thread can offload things onto other cores. its not that suddenly more threads are active but beeing able to shuffle them around helps. I agree that its not teh engine beeing like hey more cores lets split this main thread here and lets use 3 core for it. But thats hard to do.

[M T]

Well, guess its final now more thrustworthy reviews hit the shelves.

7700k still best bet for highest MWO performance :-(

At least thanks to Ryzen a new price war begins!

Looking forward to upgrade my PC later this year!

[McHoshi]

Not the baddest AMD at all

[MercJ]

Have a 1700 that should be here tomorrow, not sure when the motherboard will be here though. Looking forward to updating my frame time captures from two years ago
https://mwomercs.com...06#entry4161306

[Wolf Ender]

please post your findings ASAP I am really interested to see how it performs with MWO's strange combination of old cryengine, no optimization, still on DX11 problems.

Initially i've seen a bunch of reviews showing disappointing results, but I did see one review showing a Ryzen 1700x basically within 1% of the 7700k but no details on why he was getting such good results when everyone else is getting disappointing performances with the 1800x.

Hopeful...I want to support team red but it's hard to justify if the 1700x at 399 while 7700k is 349

[Dragoon20005]

AMD had few thing to say about the 1080p benchmarks and it all amount to most games are optimized for Intel, this seems likely but not the be all end all.
My thoughts are well find out in the next few months when a better BIOS and game optimizations are released

"

AMD responded to the issues late last night with the following statement from John Taylor, CVP of Marketing:
“As we presented at Ryzen Tech Day, we are supporting 300+ developer kits with game development studios to optimize current and future game releases for the all-new Ryzen CPU. We are on track for 1000+ developer systems in 2017. For example, Bethesda at GDC yesterday announced its strategic relationship with AMD to optimize for Ryzen CPUs, primarily through Vulkan low-level API optimizations, for a new generation of games, DLC and VR experiences.
Oxide Games also provided a public statement today on the significant performance uplift observed when optimizing for the 8-core, 16-thread Ryzen 7 CPU design – optimizations not yet reflected in Ashes of the Singularity benchmarking. Creative Assembly, developers of the Total War series, made a similar statement today related to upcoming Ryzen optimizations.
CPU benchmarking deficits to the competition in certain games at 1080p resolution can be attributed to the development and optimization of the game uniquely to Intel platforms – until now. Even without optimizations in place, Ryzen delivers high, smooth frame rates on all “CPU-bound” games, as well as overall smooth frame rates and great experiences in GPU-bound gaming and VR. With developers taking advantage of Ryzen architecture and the extra cores and threads, we expect benchmarks to only get better, and enable Ryzen excel at next generation gaming experiences as well.
Game performance will be optimized for Ryzen and continue to improve from at-launch frame rate scores.”
John Taylor, AMD

Oxide games is incredibly excited with what we are seeing from the Ryzen CPU. Using our Nitrous game engine, we are working to scale our existing and future game title performance to take full advantage of Ryzen and its 8-core, 16-thread architecture, and the results thus far are impressive. These optimizations are not yet available for Ryzen benchmarking. However, expect updates soon to enhance the performance of games like Ashes of the Singularity on Ryzen CPUs, as well as our future game releases.” - Brad Wardell, CEO Stardock and Oxide

"Creative Assembly is committed to reviewing and optimizing its games on the all-new Ryzen CPU. While current third-party testing doesn’t reflect this yet, our joint optimization program with AMD means that we are looking at options to deliver performance optimization updates in the future to provide better performance on Ryzen CPUs moving forward. " – Creative Assembly, Developers of the Multi-award Winning Total War Series




Q:In some workloads SMT seems to be causing lower framerates.Have AMD seen this behaviour in testing? If so, have you identified the cause and would you be willing to share it? I'm interested in whether it's an issue with the processor, the specific software, or maybe an issue with the windows scheduler and high thread counts.Thanks for your time
A from AMD_LisaSu:Thanks for the question. In general, we've seen great performance from SMT in applications and benchmarks but there are some games that are using code optimized for our competitor... we are confident that we can work through these issues with the game developers who are actively engaging with our engineering teams.


Q: Why there is huge discrepancy is gaming benchmarks for reviewers today? Is this something related to BIOS update?
A from AMD_LisaSu : Ryzen is doing really well in 1440p and 4K gaming when the applications are more graphics bound. And we do exceptionally well in rendering and workstation applications where more cores are really useful. In 1080p, we have tested over 100+ titles in the labs…. And depending on the test conditions, we do better in some games and worse in others. We hear people on wanting to see improved 1080p performance and we fully expect that Ryzen performance in 1080p will only get better as developers get more time with “Zen”. We have over 300+ developers now working with "Zen" and several of the developers for Ashes of Singularity and Total Warhammer are actively optimizing now



Day 1 tests are still buggy

and i heard the BIOS were only made, 3 weeks before the 2nd March launch

[xWiredx]

Dragoon20005, on 02 March 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

snip

Indeed, it does seem like there's a small performance boost when turning off SMT that is somewhat puzzling. I am left wondering if maybe there's a bit of OS patching to be done here in addition to any game- or engine-specific optimization and BIOS fixes.

The odd thing is it seems like whichever technical PR person is writing Lisa Su's posts has just admitted that in GPU-bound instances their CPU run as expected, and it's like "duh, of course it does, the CPU isn't the bottleneck then". Since the CPU should rarely be the bottleneck, all they're actually saying is that the CPU doesn't suck. What they're not saying is that it should be performing better than it is.

Either way, as long as Zen is stable, I will be looking into the possibility of using it for a new studio machine while I use a 7700K (or whatever succeeds it) in my next gaming rig.

It will be interesting to see how well the lower Zen chips perform for gaming.

[Flapdrol]

The 7700K is slightly faster, but gaming performance isn't that bad imo. If you overclock this one at least you can match a stock 7700K, unthinkable with bulldozer/piledriver.

https://www.computer...0x-1700-test/4/

40% faster in games than the ridiculous 4.7 GHz 220W TDP 9590.

also look at the difference between dx11 and dx12. The dx12 games don't know what to do with the cpu by the looks of it, in total warhammer ryzen is over 30% faster under dx11.

Edited by Flapdrol, 03 March 2017 - 08:14 AM.

[RacerX]

I read the gaming reviews of Ryzen and was not surprised. You are comparing the 7th generation Intel Core Processor to a 1st generation Ryzen chip. Software isn't optimized overnight for new hardware. It will be interesting to see how Ryzen plays out.

I am interested in folks experiences with this new chip. Please post your results with MWO once you've built and tested your new rigs. I am curiouson when MWO will have optimization for Ryzen. I was planning my next upgrade using all AMD parts.

Edited by RacerX, 03 March 2017 - 10:20 AM.

[Naglinator]

http://www.pcgamer.c...ryzen-7-review/

Now stop being poor and go buy an Intel chip.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Id say its worth the money. Evaluating measurement data is fast as never. Gaming is good - never goes to above 30% when running mwo and graphics card is at max. I can play on fully maxed graphics with 70 fps on average. Dips go to the mid 50s and high 90s. The Cpu runs on 4.225 GHz with air cooling and about 65°C when stressed for 20 minutes. The new bios from asus allowed me to get the ram to 3.2Ghz as advertised by g.skill. My powermeter also tells me that is ave about 30W when gameing compared to the old 1100T. I hope game devellopers will add optimizations for this CPU.Next replacement will be the graphics card somwhat alter this year.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 05 March 2017 - 03:27 AM.

[MFZ]

Cara Carcass, on 05 March 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

graphics card is at max. I can play on fully maxed graphics with 70 fps on average.

What resolution and graphics card, please?

[THE ERASER]

yeas please, if you Report here your Data about Ryzen and MWO, State your Graphics card and if the CPU Load is even spread out on some Cores.

That would be very nice of you guys so ppl that want to upgrade a 2011 System, like myself, can have good information first hand.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

MFZ, on 05 March 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

What resolution and graphics card, please?

THE ERASER, on 05 March 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

yeas please, if you Report here your Data about Ryzen and MWO, State your Graphics card and if the CPU Load is even spread out on some Cores.

That would be very nice of you guys so ppl that want to upgrade a 2011 System, like myself, can have good information first hand.

Its a AMD R9 290. GPU OC of 100MHz and Ram by 120MHz. I play on 1080p with everything set to max now.. The load is evenly distributed on all cores. I dont know wether that is because the OS schuffels everything around or because the games uses them. Setting number of cpus cores to 7 in the ini doesnt change anything. The laod on the cpu increases evenly when i start to stream or do something in the background.

Tryed 4k for a moment -. my Graphics card doesnt like it.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 05 March 2017 - 07:16 AM.

[THE ERASER]

Thanks for your Input, with my old R9 290X and my I7 3770k at 4.2GHz it sounds like its better Performance. Keep your Feedback coming.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

since there are only 3 new chips, i am interested in what MBs did you get? how is performance now that pci3 slots allow more bandwith as opposed to the pcie 2 slots on previous MBs

Edited by Gorantir, 05 March 2017 - 11:02 AM.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Gorantir, on 05 March 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

since there are only 3 new chips, i am interested in what MBs did you get? how is performance now that pci3 slots allow more bandwith as opposed to the pcie 2 slots on previous MBs

i took the crosshair hero VI. Soundchip is good, lots of usb 3.1, probe spots, auto overclocking, all you need

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

i buy 2 just in case

[Tarogato]

xWiredx, on 02 March 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

Again, I can already tell you there are thread upon thread from other fanboys testing their 8350s at 5GhZ showing dips all the way to 0fps (yes, zero) with MWO on very high at 1080p. We already have the evidence. It's documented. It's still floating around here in the forum.

Are we sure the zero fps moments weren't from menu transitions? I always see zero fps dips when clicking around the mechlab, or between map loading screens and such. It's very consistent.