14 replies to this topic

[War Kitten]

Greetings All,
I have been playing for about 2yrs or so now, I when I started I had heard that when I alphaed say a maddog with 6 6pak ssrms or srms not all of the hits would properly register so less damage would be delivered than was launched. Does anyone know if this has been fixed or should I just chain-fire my 6 (not just for heat), but to get all of the damage I am due?

Also, its a general agreement that any missile boat (in this case my maddog w/6ssrms) should have a back up weapon in case of jamming. How would it be if instead of 6 6pak ssrms I used 3 ssrms and 3 srms so in case of jamming the srms are the 'back up weapon' as well as part of the primary weapon? This is to allow for anyone to lock on and hit annoying lights, with no/countered jamming and still fight in case of jamming.

Just wondering.....

Thank you all for any help/advice, I am always learning not just from my exp, but that of others.

War Kitten

[War Kitten]

Sorry, forgot a thought....are the horrendous spread of ssrm for 'game balance'? I was watching a vid by Kon back when ssrms locked on to the CT witch made sense as that was the biggest part of the mech. But current ssrms seem as if the tubes are aimed to go everywhere including up the mechs fusion exhaust port....and srms usually are a fairly tight group going at roughly where you aim, but are dumb-fire . I remember when I started I was on HPG on the top level, had a 4 4pk ssrm Timby, saw a group of enemy mechs going by on the next level down, locked on to a medium, was facing at 90 deg to him, alphaed the ssrm, they followed and I was suprised as (s)he was when they all hit the mech's back and was an instakill.

Just wondering as the none of the ssrms 2,4,6 seem to group much at all, but deliberately go all over the target mech.

Thanks for any thoughts.

War Kitten

[Roughneck45]

Hit reg is much better than it was those days. You should fire your SRMs together, 4 or less to avoid ghost heat, 6 or less for SRM 2's. Same for streaks.

Streaks don't target center mass anymore, they target specific "bones" of the mech. Basically, all your damage will be spread no matter how you fire it, except maybe point blank.

You want to stack the same type of missile if you are going for the optimal build. A few medium lasers on brawl builds can be a good idea though.

Edited by Roughneck45, 22 February 2017 - 05:02 PM.

[Tesunie]

Okay... multi-part question here.

First, in theory hit reg should be better than it once was as SRMs and SSRMs did get a bit of a fix some time ago. I do recall the days you refer to, but they should be no more. So, launch as many missiles at once as you wish, or as few. Keep in mind Ghost Heat limits though, of course.

Second, if you are under the effects of an enemy ECM without any way to count, than your SSRMs will not be able to shoot, as you've stated. Having a mix of SSRMs and SRMs isn't a bad idea overall.

Third, the SSRM spread is an intentional mechanic, intended to balance homing missiles overall. They will "auto-hit", but will spread out. Their spread is a random component being homed in on per missile launch, excluding the head. This means that they will spread out and hit components. You can direct this to some extent, such as shooting SSRMs from the side of the mech will mean most/all of those SSRMs will hit only that side's hit boxes. Or, if you face hug your opponent and the missiles don't have time to spread, they can and will hit only a single component. (Face hugging is not recommended. Show your enemies love from a bit more distance...)

If you get SSRMs to hit a component more than others (such as CT or back), it's just random luck on your side. SSRMs are good, but if you want to be able to direct your damage, always bring SRMs, where you can aim better for a specific enemy component, such as a damaged arm, leg or torso section...


One final tip, if you are going to bring SSRMs, take an Active Probe (AP). They cancel a single ECM unit within their effective range, so you should almost always be able to get locks...

Roughneck45, on 22 February 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

Missiles don't jam. You want to stack the same type of missile if you are going for the optimal build. A few medium lasers on brawl builds can be a good idea though.

If one expects to run across more than a single ECM unit... they can still be jammed and unable to get a lock. So mixing between SSRMs and SRMs isn't a bad idea per say... But typical convention does indicate that stacking more of the same type of weapon is better than splitting it up. In this case, either method isn't a bad concept. Might actually be worth considering mixing SSRMs and SRMs and see what happens...

[Roughneck45]

Tesunie, on 22 February 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

If one expects to run across more than a single ECM unit... they can still be jammed and unable to get a lock.

I was a moron and thought "only uac's jam" lol.

Edited by Roughneck45, 22 February 2017 - 05:02 PM.

[process]

SSRMs are currently a very blunt tool that are really only effective against lights and mediums. Heavier mechs would do well to rely on SRMs for greater damage consistency and performance.

SSRM boats are still fun, but have limited value unless you play smart.

If the Clan versions didn't have such ridiculous range they're wouldn't be used nearly as often.

[Tesunie]

Roughneck45, on 22 February 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

I was a moron and thought "only uac's jam" lol.

Meh. Happens. I kinda suspect you were thinking that, or was thinking "take an AP and just counter the ECM"... Either way...

[Wintersdark]

process, on 22 February 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

SSRMs are currently a very blunt tool that are really only effective against lights and mediums. Heavier mechs would do well to rely on SRMs for greater damage consistency and performance.

SSRM boats are still fun, but have limited value unless you play smart.

If the Clan versions didn't have such ridiculous range they're wouldn't be used nearly as often.

Yup!

---

To the OP:

As it stands, SSRM's will target basically every part of the target mech equally. Where he gets hit depends on how he's facing, though: the missiles fly towards their target component, but just directly towards it. If a missile is targeting his left arm, and he turns sideways so his right arm is in the way, he'll probably take the hit on his right side as a result.

It's an important change. If SSRM's where center-seeking, the SSRM4 and SSRM6 racks that Clans have (and IS will soon have) would be really out of whack. Imagine a 36 tube SSRM boat landing 72 point guided salvos in your CT time after time without even aiming. That's just broken.

The spread makes them dangerous to lights and some mediums, but largely useless against bigger mechs most of the time. Whether they are worth using at all depends on your aim, really - personally, I never use them now because equivalent sized SRM racks (even with Artemis) group tighter, and push vastly more damage over time because they cycle much faster.

But, you need to aim.

[Koniving]

On my Streak boat Stormcrow... I use standard SRM-6s or SRM-6+Artemis in the arms.

Some standard SRMs to go with Streaks is very good to have when face to face with something bigger.

Then again, I recently had fun with a 9 Stream SRM-2 boat....
So much fun! Backed it up with some lasers.

[Tesunie]

Wintersdark, on 22 February 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

But, you need to aim.

Yup. If you aren't familiar with SRMs, it's easy to miss. If your computer runs this game choppy or at a low frame rate, that can also place a good preference towards SSRMs. However, it is recommended to use SRMs otherwise, for your stated reason. (Changed my Adder from 4SSRM4s to 4 SRM4s because of that. Worked much better.)

[Wintersdark]

Tesunie, on 22 February 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Yup. If you aren't familiar with SRMs, it's easy to miss. If your computer runs this game choppy or at a low frame rate, that can also place a good preference towards SSRMs. However, it is recommended to use SRMs otherwise, for your stated reason. (Changed my Adder from 4SSRM4s to 4 SRM4s because of that. Worked much better.)

Yeah - the comparatively slow speed of the rockets means you really need to get good at leading your targets, as fast movers can require a substantial lead.

On the other hand, a 4xASRM6 volley well aimed deals a lovely 48 damage. Not bad out of a loadout readily carried by a Medium, and cycling quite quickly. It hurts.

[Razorfire]

Mmmmm..... Streaks. To this day, I have dropped as many matches in my Streak-36 Mad Dog as all my other mechs combined. I just love the thing for so many reasons. A very specific playstyle though that requires defensive patience and decisive movement at the peak of the battle. Some notes to keep in mind with Streaks:

IS should not bother with Streaks. Streak 2s are not an effective weapon system. I won't carry anything less than a SSRM 6.
Mixing 4s and 6s screws with chainfire and DPS efficiency. Don't do it.
Streak boats should always have BAP.
Streak boats should always equip ARTEMIS.
Streak boats should always always always always equip TAG.
With BAP and TAG, you will need three enemy ECM mechs within a hundred meters of each other to cancel your targeting.

Finally, always chainfire your streaks unless you need the big whomp to drop the enemy mech. Even then, it's still probably better to chainfire:

1. You get far better sustained damage per second due to heat,
2. There is plenty of evidence to suggest chainfire leads to less damage spreading.
3. Chainfiring Streaks is a psychological advantage akin to AC ballistic weapons. Screen shake, smoke and fire, loud noise, all combine to send mechs running or at the least to break their focus, giving you and your teammates a momentary advantage that can be exploited with aggressive play.

Combined, those three advantages makes an alpha strike completely nonsense. I'll fire an alpha at a light mech who is about to get out of range or drop behind hard cover. I will never alpha otherwise.

Tactically (and I'm giving away my hard-learned trade secrets here, so listen up):
Light or Medium Streak boats should stay at the rear or flanks on light-deterrence duty and wait for the chaos of the end game when they will be most effective against badly damaged and psychologically frazzled enemies.

Heavy Streak boats should NOT stay on the rear or flanks on light duty. They should remain at the front, under cover, until there is a breakthrough opportunity. They should charge the gap and keep moving past the enemy front line, laying a full salvo on any enemy they see and then switching to the next target, all while pushing forward. Never stopping, never focusing on just one enemy. This sows maximum chaos. As enemies turn to react to your push, they expose themselves to your teammates. As long as you keep moving and torso twisting, you'll be fine and when your side wins, you get to quietly pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

There are other tactics with Streak Boats, but none as effective if you value wins over K/D ratio.

[Tesunie]

Razorfire, on 22 February 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

Streak boats should always always always always equip TAG.
With BAP and TAG, you will need three enemy ECM mechs within a hundred meters of each other to cancel your targeting.

...

Finally, always chainfire your streaks unless you need the big whomp to drop the enemy mech. Even then, it's still probably better to chainfire:

1. You get far better sustained damage per second due to heat,
2. There is plenty of evidence to suggest chainfire leads to less damage spreading.
3. Chainfiring Streaks is a psychological advantage akin to AC ballistic weapons. Screen shake, smoke and fire, loud noise, all combine to send mechs running or at the least to break their focus, giving you and your teammates a momentary advantage that can be exploited with aggressive play.

You have some incorrect information here, unless I've been greatly misinformed and my game plays different from yours.

TAG does not disable ECM, it only "punches" through it. If a mech is under the influence of an enemy ECM, than TAG provides no benefits at all. This means that, no, a single mech can not actively counter more than a single enemy ECM unit. Outside of the enemy's ECM field (which I believe is 90m now), TAG will still have it's full normal effects, which in the case of SSRMs, makes missile locks faster to get.

This leads TAG more into a "nice to have, not a must" for SSRM users.

---

As for your second part, minus the ghost heat concept, it is actually more effective and better DPS to alpha your SSRMs. At one point in this game's history, you use to have to chain fire any SSRM system for it to register damage properly, as too many projectiles hitting a target somehow made it forget to count some of the damage. Now? Not such an issue anymore, meaning that Alpha Striking bunches of SSRMs to have full affect.

Chain fire and Alpha fire for SSRMs does not have any known impact on the missile spread. It will still have each individual missile seek and "home in" on a specific component (or "bone"). The number of missiles here does not affect the "random number generator" as to which specific component is being tracked by any number of missiles. (It is rumors that more SRMs or LRMs in flight increases spread, but I have not seen this specifically. In either way. So I don't believe it, but I wouldn't doubt it either.)

Chainfiring SSRMs certainly does have a physiological affect. If anything, the terror affect is more impactful in this case than your other standings. However, chain fire may cause more fear, but it doesn't actually deal any extra damage. Actually, it deals less damage, but only slightly and only in a very long continuous manner. The shorter the "burst" of chain fire, the more that an alpha gains in damage. (While you are shooting volleys 2 and 3, an alpha would have already fired those launchers and dealt that damage. In the time it would take for you to alpha twice, you would have only chained once, maybe had a second "volley" just start.)

[Tesunie]

Note to above post of mine:

NARC will also disable a single ECM if it is attached to an ECM mech. This is the only why I know of that a mech can breach more than a single ECM within their affects (up close).

Fun Fact: If you NARC an ally, it was once able to disable even a friendly ECM mech's ECM. I do not know if this was fixed at some point, but it was funny to do in a test once...

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah I don't ever bother chain firing a streakdog - burn each bank and get into cover while moving @ max speed (usually doing a quick move around a building etc). I never bring TAG either, I find CAP is enough as I need the ammo.

Live much longer that way than exposing urself to chain fire all that time.