67 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

meteorol, on 24 February 2017 - 03:22 AM, said:

I guess a lot of people don't realize how much the game has changed by now. I remember how (back in the days, before clan arrival) people used to argue the KC can't be added to the game because it would be so OP that it would actually break the game.

Look at where we are now. It's a subpar assault with zero influence on the game at all. The annihilator maybe could have been viable years ago. Nowadays, there is no point in releasing it.

well, in fairness..... I don't tend to worry about meta viability as a reason not to offer something. There are a lot of sub par robots I still enjoy, and if other folks can have their robot, sub par or not, I'm cool with that. I just want people to have realistic expectations... so often people just totally go nuts campaigning for their pet robot... and ti's not good (and really wasn't in TT, or other MW editions)... and then they complain and whine to try to get them uber buffed.

If you want a subpar robot... that's fine... but freaking except it's not going to be a match for a respective meta robot, and don't whine about it later.

Also... with upcoming disconnect between engine and twist... that could help...but realistically, I don't expect it to be gifted a particularly agile status, due to firepower.

[Valhallan]

In defense of the annihilator there is ONE variant that has base 300 engine (though i think it was a wolf dragoon clan refit)

We could also consider schwerer gustav for realsies, it has a 400 base engine

Edited by Valhallan, 24 February 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[Metus regem]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 February 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

This shouldn't be that much of a surprise. Clan assaults are better off with PPFLD/dakka loadouts anyway. For instance, see how many KDK-1s are running around?

I will admit my error in calling the Kodiak 1 Game Braking, but when I did call her game braking, the meta was laser vomit... how ever I was right about a Kodiak being game braking, just happened to be the 3, with the meta shift back to PPFLD...

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 February 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

well, in fairness..... I don't tend to worry about meta viability as a reason not to offer something. There are a lot of sub par robots I still enjoy, and if other folks can have their robot, sub par or not, I'm cool with that. I just want people to have realistic expectations... so often people just totally go nuts campaigning for their pet robot... and ti's not good (and really wasn't in TT, or other MW editions)... and then they complain and whine to try to get them uber buffed.

If you want a subpar robot... that's fine... but freaking except it's not going to be a match for a respective meta robot, and don't whine about it later.

Also... with upcoming disconnect between engine and twist... that could help...but realistically, I don't expect it to be gifted a particularly agile status, due to firepower.

I will say this in TT the Anni is very strong in a city like the Urbanmech, just kind of bad outside of a city... like the Urbanmech...

Still given my choice, I'd rather take 7 Urbanmechs for the rough cost of 1 Annhilator for city fighting... volume of fire and all that....

[Gas Guzzler]

Metus regem, on 24 February 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

I will admit my error in calling the Kodiak 1 Game Braking, but when I did call her game braking, the meta was laser vomit... how ever I was right about a Kodiak being game braking, just happened to be the 3, with the meta shift back to PPFLD...

TBH, even when laser vomit was meta, laser boat assaults just aren't optimal, especially 100 tonners. They don't gain enough in terms of heat efficiency to make up for being slower and bigger. The MAD-IIC is alright at 85 tons with a large engine cap, but 90-100 tonners are to big and slow to be actually optimal. I mean.. even the EBJ can take the full laser vomit setup at 87 kph and 24 DHS. The MAD-IIC gains 4 DHS and loses ~10 kph... its sort of better, I guess?

If the KDK-1s hardpoint locations were better, I might be singing a different tune, but with 8 energy hardpoints in arms in a BIG wide 100 tonner... meh.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 February 2017 - 09:12 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 February 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

TBH, even when laser vomit was meta, laser boat assaults just aren't optimal, especially 100 tonners. They don't gain enough in terms of heat efficiency to make up for being slower and bigger. The MAD-IIC is alright at 85 tons with a large engine cap, but 90-100 tonners are to big and slow to be actually optimal. I mean.. even the EBJ can take the full laser vomit setup at 87 kph and 24 DHS. The MAD-IIC gains 4 DHS and loses ~10 kph... its sort of better, I guess?

If the KDK-1s hardpoint locations were better, I might be singing a different tune, but with 8 energy hardpoints in arms in a BIG wide 100 tonner... meh.

basically.... if the KDK was the BLR-2C but with clan XLs, etc.

[Coolant]

I prolly agree with the OP mostly...the Mauler already is a ballistic platform. It wasn't that long ago that the 5 AC5 boat was very deadly and Mauler's aren't speed demons. If the Annihilator can boat 4 LBX10's or 3 or more AC20's I think it will more than make up for it's slow speed.

I think many will get the Annihilator for MG Annie. That was what it was known for in MW4:Mercs. I think you could fit 17 of them and it would shread any mech in seconds.

[meteorol]

Coolant, on 24 February 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

If the Annihilator can boat 4 LBX10's or 3 or more AC20's I think it will more than make up for it's slow speed.

The KDK-3 can use 4x LBX 10 at good speed. Slepnir and Mauler can do it aswell, at a better speed than the Annihilator could.

AC 20 do have 270m optimal range and a terrible velocity. Which is not exactly what you want when your mech is too slow to close the gap without getting shot to pieces.

Edited by meteorol, 24 February 2017 - 09:33 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Acehilator, on 24 February 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

The Supernovas are super nice mechs. Not OP, not UP, just at a point were most mechs should be. Not every mech can be the new KDK-3. Technically they are worse than the Marauder IIC (slower, worse hitboxes, less flexibilty), but I still do better (average over all variants) in my Supernovas compared to my Marauders... go figure. Boiler > Scorch anyways.

So far after 78 total matches with mine, I'm at an overall 1.68 W/L and 0.99 K/D ratio. Which is of course a really small sample size but I am enjoying them nevertheless.

[Y E O N N E]

meteorol, on 24 February 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

AC 20 do have 270m optimal range and a terrible velocity. Which is not exactly what you want when your mech is too slow to close the gap without getting shot to pieces.

And ghost heat...which, frankly, is a load of horse.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 February 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

And ghost heat...which, frankly, is a load of horse.

Yeah, ghost heat thresholds and penalties REALLY need to be adjusted.
WTB being able to shoot 3 iPPC without ghost heat.

[Acehilator]

Dee Eight, on 24 February 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

So far after 78 total matches with mine, I'm at an overall 1.68 W/L and 0.99 K/D ratio. Which is of course a really small sample size but I am enjoying them nevertheless.

67 matches, 1,81 W/L, 1,8 K/D. Yeah small sample size, but it will only go up I guess. All basics done, first one elited (got basic pack + Boiler). And a crazy string of potato teams yesterday evening.

Enjoyable as all heck, totally surprising.

[Metus regem]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 February 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

And ghost heat...which, frankly, is a load of horse.

It's such a poorly thought out system with so many workarounds ... On top of that, it under effects powerful builds, and over effects stock / bad / average builds.... It often leaves me wondering if Paul actually plays a current version of MWO.... Or if he stopped after the "Goon incident"....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 24 February 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

It's such a poorly thought out system with so many workarounds ...

The workarounds are more of a feature than actual workarounds. The problem is that many of the limits and penalties are outdated and some don't make sense. It goes back to the implementation vs concept deal that people are facing with both the removal of the tie between agility and speed.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 February 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

The workarounds are more of a feature than actual workarounds. The problem is that many of the limits and penalties are outdated and some don't make sense. It goes back to the implementation vs concept deal that people are facing with both the removal of the tie between agility and speed.

What I meant by workaround, you can entirely side step Ghost heat, by simply firing that extra weapon that will trigger it .5 seconds later, or you brake the weapons into different weapon groups.

If Ghost Heat was tied to grouped hard points, such as those found on mechs like the Nova's and ST's or Battlemaster's shoulders, then it could be used as a balancing tool, good clustered hard point locations (extra heat generated) vs poor hard point locations (improved RoF or cooling). Something like that would need to be done a mech by mech bases, so a lot more work over the lazy and lagging implementation that we got.

Edited by Metus regem, 24 February 2017 - 11:00 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Metus regem, on 24 February 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

What I meant by workaround, you can entirely side step Ghost heat, by simply firing that extra weapon that will trigger it .5 seconds later, or you brake the weapons into different weapon groups.

That's a feature not a workaround. For instance, 4 PPCs fired at once is much more likely to gash a single component, where as if you fire them separated by .5 seconds, you have a much higher chance of hitting a different component if the target is moving and actively trying to evade fire. Similarly, for lasers it effectively adds 0.5 seconds to your duration, which is both easier to mitigate, and requires more face time.

Like has been said though, those penalties really are outdated.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 February 2017 - 11:05 AM.

[Mechteric]

Quote

The 3 jumpjets is just troll. I thought I could use it as an assault Shadowcat, nope. I can't even make it up the wall of Viridian Bog (the wall on the low trench), so much for 90 meters...

To be fair, jump jets suck on every mech, only exception being light/medium mechs which pack at least 5 jets. That is to say they can at least jump high, but still do it slooooowly.

Quote

It has so much free tonnage with no critical points. It boats light energy weapons without the appropriate heatsink compensation (again, critical slows issue).

It's not an omnimech, so you don't have to use XL engine and Endo/Ferro if you don't need it.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 24 February 2017 - 11:43 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 February 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

That's a feature not a workaround. For instance, 4 PPCs fired at once is much more likely to gash a single component, where as if you fire them separated by .5 seconds, you have a much higher chance of hitting a different component if the target is moving and actively trying to evade fire. Similarly, for lasers it effectively adds 0.5 seconds to your duration, which is both easier to mitigate, and requires more face time.

Like has been said though, those penalties really are outdated.

Yeah, i dont have the problem most people have with ghost heat (its needed), but it inner sphere ppcs need to have a cap of 3 for sure. That would actually make them compete with Clan PPCs (albeit only on heavier mechs able to run 3 PPCs) - considerably heavier, but 30 pinpoint instead of spread.

[Y E O N N E]

Widowmaker1981, on 24 February 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

Yeah, i dont have the problem most people have with ghost heat (its needed), but it inner sphere ppcs need to have a cap of 3 for sure. That would actually make them compete with Clan PPCs (albeit only on heavier mechs able to run 3 PPCs) - considerably heavier, but 30 pinpoint instead of spread.

Eh, not that much heavier. 2x cERPPC + 1x cGauss is 24 tons for 35+10 damage vs. 21 tons for 30 damage out of 3x isPPC. Seems pretty fair to me, and there's no charge-up on the latter.

But I am happy to see that more people are on-board with bumping isPPC ghost limit to 3.

[Metus regem]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 February 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

Eh, not that much heavier. 2x cERPPC + 1x cGauss is 24 tons for 35+10 damage vs. 21 tons for 30 damage out of 3x isPPC. Seems pretty fair to me, and there's no charge-up on the latter.

But I am happy to see that more people are on-board with bumping isPPC ghost limit to 3.

Anything to make the stock Awesome armament viable