5 replies to this topic

[Cato Phoenix]

I'd like to present an idea I had regarding quirks and the skill trees. Currently, the skill trees are equivalent between mechs. This means that quirks will be unable to be eliminated from the game, in order to keep under performing mechs, as well as IS mechs in general, at parity with the higher performing chassis. And currently, a blanket reduction, but not elimination in quirks, with the addition of the skill tree further widens the gap between under performers and good mechs.

I propose that quirks be inherent to a chassis (and specific variant)'s skill tree. Thus eliminated as flat bonuses. This is already, in fact ,going to be implemented for the mech's agility profile as discussed in the new releases' initial notes, wherein an agile mech will receive a greater bonus from that percent skill boost than a slow one will.

I propose that this be expanded. I'm making up numbers here, but example:

A Grid Iron (the Gaussian Mech) could receive 3% cooldown per ballistic cooldown node taken. The tankiest of tanky 4SP gets a 2.5% armor and structure bonus per node rather than the 1.5%. The agile Victor gets an extra 2% to each torso twist, turn rate, and acceleration nodes, while the humble narc raven gets a whopping 7% sensor range per node, -5% target info gathering time per node, ECM boost, and Narc-length bonuses - all per node. And the monster destructive Kodiak-3? Well. He just gets the base 1% for most things. Sad Panda. But that Kodiak isn't completely left out - he gets an extra 1.5% torso twist rate - he's certainly no dire whale. And the SBear? Tossing out SRMs like they're fuel has an expiration date with the 2.5% bonus.

Now - this rewards players for taking skills which suit the particular role and lore of a chassis - they get more 'bang' for their SP buck, as it were. This helps boost underperformers and limits the blanket 'goodness-getting-better' of strong performers, who can still pick and choose where they want to be good at.

But most importantly it gives players the choice on their skill builds, which is what the skill tree is supposed to be all about. Player A can choose to gear up his Hunchie 4SP for brawling up close, maxing out the armor skills, grabbing cooldowns for his weapons. But if player B is that guy who wants to toss LRMs in it (Don't look at me- it's -their- choice) decides that only choosing 1-2 nodes in the armor is enough, since it brings him to an acceptable level due to the boost, he uses those valuable SP elsewhere - maybe grabbing target decay boosts and sensor range upgrades, despite those being percentage-wise not as efficient.

It requires some thought on how to make it work weapon-wise since skills will be combined for all weapons - though I think think I know how to solve that. Just have a back-end addition to specific weapons. Say, for the Grid Iron - for every 1% of cooldown node chosen, that mech gets 2% ballistic bonus and 3% gauss cooldown, and every 2.5% of range, they get 4% ballistic range and 5% gauss range. Thus - you promote ballistics on the GI, give an additional bonus for using ascribing to the lore and going gauss. Yay lore, yay uniqueness!

And do you want to know what else is cool? You can tailor it to promote non-boating as well. That Hunch 4SP? For every 1% of cooldown node taken it could get 2% of missile cooldown and 2% of laser cooldown. If lore-wise that Hunch 4J does lrms? 2% of missile cooldown, 3% of LRM cooldown, and 1% laser cooldown.

It's tailorable - obviously requiring work to implement, but I think most of that is already done in quirks, and it just becomes a value adjustment.

Just my 2 mil cbill. What do you think?

[Rizn Nuke]

This is certainly an interesting concept, especially the points about giving certain bonuses on certain chassis on certain nodes.

I think working the quirks into the Nodes would be a nice idea.

However, a major problem I can foresee with this system is the amount of information needed to comunicate all the advantages and disadvantages of a mech or even single nodes. If you think the list of quirks is already crammed on some IS mechs, what do you think the list explaining all the bonuses from nodes is going to look like.

[Y E O N N E]

For this to work, you have to accept that a 'Mech will be utter trash until skilled up. I don't need to explain the drawbacks there, do I?

[Cato Phoenix]

Rizn Nuke, on 26 February 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

However, a major problem I can foresee with this system is the amount of information needed to comunicate all the advantages and disadvantages of a mech or even single nodes. If you think the list of quirks is already crammed on some IS mechs, what do you think the list explaining all the bonuses from nodes is going to look like.

As far as the nodes go, you just make them display the %bonus they get as normal. Instead of 1% it'll just display 3% or whatever. I guess for unpurchased mechs you would either need to be able to peek in on their skill tree or have a sheet with their bonuses.

Yeonne Greene, on 26 February 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

For this to work, you have to accept that a 'Mech will be utter trash until skilled up. I don't need to explain the drawbacks there, do I?

Sure, but I think giving that choice to players is worth working for. I don't think the quirk system is bad, but this is a way to roll it into the skill tree. Otherwise, there is not much of an option of divorcing quirks from the game.

[Alistair Winter]

As I've said in other threads, I think the quirks need to remain. Any attempt to get rid of quirks by giving underperforming mechs extra skill points or extra bonuses from each skill or additional nodes to unlock, it's going to be as complicated as quirks or more complicated.

In my opinion, the only quirks that PGI needs to get rid of are the outdated minor quirks, like 5% heat bonus or 10% acceleration bonus, which don't have a big effect on their own. All those minor quirks should be deleted and replaced with free skill points, in my opinion. This would make the system less messy.

But the major quirks, like major mobility quirks for the Locust and major armor quirks for the Victor? I think PGI should leave those in the game. It's a relatively simple and elegant solution, and it also makes those mechs more characterful.

[Y E O N N E]

Cato Phoenix, on 04 March 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

Sure, but I think giving that choice to players is worth working for. I don't think the quirk system is bad, but this is a way to roll it into the skill tree. Otherwise, there is not much of an option of divorcing quirks from the game.

I don't. I don't like the idea that I or any player in a brand new 'Mech has to be subjected to a beating by players not in brand new 'Mechs simply because the game said you have to earn so many arbitrary points before you are allowed equal equipment. That is awful, through and through, and should be banished.

Hell, the Skill Tree shouldn't be granting you straight upgrades, anyway. It's just a less severe form of the above. Balance should be achieved on the 'Mechs and equipment, skill tree should be a tool players use to complement their builds in one way at the expense of others.