11 replies to this topic

[DjPush]

I get it. You want there to be some sort of checks and balance system in place so that people don't boat weapons and pick out all the best quirks for that. However, I think this approach needs some tweaking.




I'm not sure if this is possible but here is my suggestion. Have the skill tree reflect the actual load out of the mech. If I have this HBK-4SP loaded out with 2 Large lasers and 3 medium with 2 SRM4s, the skill tree should resemble that loadout. I shouldn't be forced to get something I don't want to get something I do want. Reduce the number of skill points one can assign, and for every positive attribute in one category lock out a compliment in another.

Example. Say that I have 4 ER large lasers and I want to play a roll as a sniper. You have 5 range options, 5 cool down options, 5 duration options, and 5 heat gen options.

1.) If I chose the first Range option, that should lock out the first heat gen option. Range should come at a cost of heat generation. Each successive range option I choose, locks out another heat gen option. And visa versa for the heat gen column.

2.) If I choose the first cool down option, That should lock out one of the heat gen or duration options. Being able to fire your weapon at a faster rate should come at a cost of either heat generation or beam duration. You could randomize this or make it a player option. The point is, being able to fire your weapon at a faster rate should have a cost and that cost is not being able to choose one of the other quirks.

3.) This goes for ballistics and other weapons systems as well. Choose one bonus and lose the ability to pick its compliment.

4.) You could even make this concept work for the other skill trees. If I want a mech with armor hardening, lock out a mobility quirk.

Boom! Balance!

Edited by DjPush, 01 March 2017 - 07:49 PM.

[MOBAjobg]

It's just a simple If-Then-Else condition in program coding. Nothing so difficult to do.

[Zergling]

I'd rather if they just imitated Diablo 3's paragon point system. Simple and won't force players to spend points on bonuses they don't want, to get the bonuses they do want.

[Weeny Machine]

DjPush, on 01 March 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

I get it. You want there to be some sort of checks and balance system in place so that people don't boat weapons and pick out all the best quirks for that. However, I think this approach needs some tweaking.




I'm not sure if this is possible but here is my suggestion. Have the skill tree reflect the actual load out of the mech. If I have this HBK-4SP loaded out with 2 Large lasers and 3 medium with 2 SRM4s, the skill tree should resemble that loadout. I shouldn't be forced to get something I don't want to get something I do want. Reduce the number of skill points one can assign, and for every positive attribute in one category lock out a compliment in another.

Example. Say that I have 4 ER large lasers and I want to play a roll as a sniper. You have 5 range options, 5 cool down options, 5 duration options, and 5 heat gen options.

1.) If I chose the first Range option, that should lock out the first heat gen option. Range should come at a cost of heat generation. Each successive range option I choose, locks out another heat gen option. And visa versa for the heat gen column.

2.) If I choose the first cool down option, That should lock out one of the heat gen or duration options. Being able to fire your weapon at a faster rate should come at a cost of either heat generation or beam duration. You could randomize this or make it a player option. The point is, being able to fire your weapon at a faster rate should have a cost and that cost is not being able to choose one of the other quirks.

3.) This goes for ballistics and other weapons systems as well. Choose one bonus and lose the ability to pick its compliment.

4.) You could even make this concept work for the other skill trees. If I want a mech with armor hardening, lock out a mobility quirk.

Boom! Balance!

I like your suggestions because...
1. it prevents people from going Munchkin and lower the TTK even further
2. it really has impact how you spend your points
3. mechs would differ

[Hawk819]

Zergling, on 01 March 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

I'd rather if they just imitated Diablo 3's paragon point system. Simple and won't force players to spend points on bonuses they don't want, to get the bonuses they do want.

I'd like to see that. I have played the game you suggested, but that kind of system could definitely work in MechWarrior Online.

[Judah Malganis]

I like DJPush's idea of playing attributes against each other. It could force a player to choose between range vs cooldown, heat vs velocity/duration, spread/jam chance vs crit/ammo, for example. It would make individual 'mechs a lot less cookie cutter and might allow some of the final bonuses to be a little higher since players have to compromise to get their choice.

Overall, I feel the current tree, particularly in the firepower branch, forces players to get too much fluff to get to the stuff players really want. I don't think it's how it should be, most other games give players choices where every point leads to something useful for a specific build. 'Mechs in this game are pretty complex and unique, which make the fluff even more painful. I mean, why make a mech with 8 torso weapons get arm speed to max out torso speed? It's too wasteful.

[F1oyd]

I do not like the new skilltree at all. I would suggest to do an overhaul of the old skilltree instead of introducing the new one. I do not wanna click trough 91 mini quirks to skill my mech. I do want to be forced to unlock a lot of skills i do not want to get what i think might be usefull. I do not want to pay again and again everytime i put a new loadout on a mech and want to play it optimized.
And on top of that i do not believe it actually really allows to skill mechs in a more individual way or increases variety and optimazation of special roles on the battlefield. I expect most mechs beeing skilled in a pretty similar way after players figured out how skills work out in practice.
Furthermore i am not happy as a long time player with nearly 300 mechs to pay for stuff i already payed for. And this concerns any currency.
But the worst thing is that if the basic quirks are really reduced to a minimum the balance of the game will be totally destroyed with the new skilltree coming like it is on the pts right now.
My constructive proposal is to overhaul the old skilltree just a little bit instead worsen the status quo.

Edited by Floyd Foster, 02 March 2017 - 06:25 AM.

[Greyhart]

I would point to my solution to the problem https://mwomercs.com...tree-soluition/

if you have Trees unlocked by SP and nodes unlocked (limited per tree) then you can get a balance. You could have cooldown vs range in one tree and heat vs duration / volocity in another.

[Nesutizale]

You could have all this more simple by using the weapons themself.
You want Range go ER hand have the drawback of more heat and tonnage and so on.

[Dee Eight]

I think either the weapon tree needs a second start point or the branches need to be able to be unlocked upwards as well as downwards.

[DjPush]

If I have UAC5s on my mech, I don't think I should have to go through 20 skill points to unlock -1% Jam Chance.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Well I gave the system a run last night in my Timber wolf.
Went the standard structure tree will all but 2 to maximise armour and structure.
the rest was a bit of everything, I did notice that it takes alot to get radar deprivation to any level and just how much pitch and yaw is enough to get me the same as I have at the moment requires more brain power than I want to use.

Overall once playing, I found yes I could take a few more hits but I had lost some of my range advantages I had once had. (6% instead of the old 10%)

On respec'ing
Its going to take alot of testing and changing to get each mech to a build that suits a player. I just wish that once you purchase a node that's it, its unlocked and you can either select it or not select it for use. No exp repurchase cost. This still means we have to grind to open all the nodes for a mech but once we have done that we can tweak our builds over time without always being penalised.