30 replies to this topic

[Flying Blind]

title says it all, the mechs that most need mobility to survive do not have it any more and acceleration/deceleration are the worst offenders

a viper on the live build that has zero skill unlocks is twice as agile as a fully mastered viper in the PTS. seriously. when accel/decel are measured the live build zero skills viper can accelerate to max speed and return to zero speed twice in the same distance it takes a fully mastered viper with every mobility skill to do that once on PTS

locusts are completely dead no way to survive at all


I had hope for this engine decouple from agility thing when PGI said that mechs that need agility to survive would be getting mobility bonuses. they aren't or not enough if they are.

the difference between a mech that has the entire mobility/agility tree unlocked and a mech that has zero mobility/agility skills unlocked is very slight and almost not noticeable. there is zero point to taking agility skill tree at all just bank up on everything else and save 30-40 points for the skills that actually work


there's no point in me playing any more of the PTS until this is fixed. this is so horrible and robs so much fun out of the game I really hope this doesn't go live because it destroys the game for me. I don't want my locust to feel like a griffin. I don't want a cicada that feels like a dragon

this is bad

[ArmageddonKnight]

It forces a change in the way lights are played is all.

No longer will lights be used to hunt down Assault mechs.

Now light pilots will have to use a light mech, as a light mech. Scout, spot, clear objectives, take on other lights, support the group with ecm, ams etc.

Will it reduce the amount of light mechs used. Yes, becouse of the above, alot of light piltos use lights to hunt down assaults, its fun, but frankly its not meant to be that way. PGI will likely have to add incentives to play light mechs, such as increased rewards.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 02 March 2017 - 11:24 AM.

[Alan Davion]

ArmageddonKnight, on 02 March 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

It forces a change in the way lights are played is all.

No longer will lights be used to hunt down Assault mechs.

Now light pilots will have to use a light mech, as a light mech. Scout, spot, clear objectives, take on other lights, support the group with ecm, ams etc.

Will it reduce the amount of light mechs used. Yes, becouse of the above, alot of light piltos use lights to hunt down assaults, its fun, but frankly its not meant to be that way. PGI will likely have to add incentives to play light mechs, such as increased rewards.

Then they better receive a huge boost to their C-Bill earnings somehow cause damage is all that matters right now. Support roles get jack s***.

[Monkey Lover]

All hail our kitfox and adder light overlords !

If you can't run fast you might as well take a crap load of weapons

[Flying Blind]

ArmageddonKnight, on 02 March 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

It forces a change in the way lights are played is all.

No longer will lights be used to hunt down Assault mechs.

Now light pilots will have to use a light mech, as a light mech. Scout, spot, clear objectives, take on other lights, support the group with ecm, ams etc.

Will it reduce the amount of light mechs used. Yes, becouse of the above, alot of light piltos use lights to hunt down assaults, its fun, but frankly its not meant to be that way. PGI will likely have to add incentives to play light mechs, such as increased rewards.

I use locusts and cicadas to hunt assault mechs on the table top all the time and it works great. just like in game you use superior speed and maneuverability to your advantage and pick away at them.

I'm sorry sir but you are incorrect.

also early in MWO game development the PGI team, Russ I think, made a big deal about how very pleased they were that people could pick light mechs as a viable option and expect to go out and make a difference in the fight and how they can expect to be a force to be reckoned with. so it is ABSOLUTELY intended to be that way.

even still that leaves mediums out in the cold. AGAIN. mediums have been bad more often than any other weight class. lately they have enjoyed better performance but it has been relatively short lived

[The Lighthouse]

Monkey Lover, on 02 March 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

All hail our kitfox and adder light overlords !

If you can't run fast you might as well take a crap load of weapons

Unfortunately even Kitfox and Adder are heavily affected. They are really incredibly sluggish compared to current normal version of the game. ACH now feels as if I am piloting a Timber Wolf with negative quirks. No need to explain the status of Locusts.

Basically the entire light mechs are neutered. You are literally stealing tonnage from other people if you bring light mechs in this decoupled engine patch.

[FupDup]

ArmageddonKnight, on 02 March 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

It forces a change in the way lights are played is all.

No longer will lights be used to hunt down Assault mechs.

Now light pilots will have to use a light mech, as a light mech. Scout, spot, clear objectives, take on other lights, support the group with ecm, ams etc.

Will it reduce the amount of light mechs used. Yes, becouse of the above, alot of light piltos use lights to hunt down assaults, its fun, but frankly its not meant to be that way. PGI will likely have to add incentives to play light mechs, such as increased rewards.

Making lights have garbage agility does not help them scout, spot, clear objectives, take on other lights, support the group with ECM, AMS, etc.

If anything, making lights have garbage agility makes them WORSE at all of those things.

[The Lost Boy]

Agility wise we wont be approaching current basiced levels let alone DOUBLE basiced levels.

Those days will soon be GONE.

All mechs will have to adapt to new roles, play styles and this summer new tech as well.

Keep testing!

[l33tworks]

I predicted this would happen. Its due to the engine mobility disconnect. Dont worry this wont make it live and if it does it will be quickly patched out or changes reverted or lights and mediums will get a huge boost to base mobility.

[FireStoat]

Just posting to confirm the findings of the OP. I tested my Purifier kitfox, Phaket huntsman, and for the hell of it, a Timberwolf. With maxed out mobility talents the mechs move like crap compared to live. I guess on the one hand, if everyone's mechs have horrible mobility it's a level playing field, but on the other hand there's zero point to bringing anything less than real gunboats.

OP nailed it on the head.

[Andi Nagasia]

well if your light & medium where large engined yes they did abit,
my UM, PNT, WLF, KFX, & ADR are more moble and happy now though,

[Amsro]

I like my medium mechs in the PTS

[Capt Deadpool]

l33tworks, on 02 March 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

I predicted this would happen. Its due to the engine mobility disconnect. Dont worry this wont make it live and if it does it will be quickly patched out or changes reverted or lights and mediums will get a huge boost to base mobility.

I believe this as well. We are still in the testing phase, and PGI will realize that lights and mediums have been neutered out of the realm of viability and make adjustments. But it is good for them to see threads like this to let them know.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 02 March 2017 - 07:29 PM.

[Vidarion]

I appreciate the fact that you went out and tested your builds in the PTS. It shows a dedication to the game.

However, your conclusions are a little flawed in some respects:

First, the mobility changes that you decry as the downfall of lights and mediums also affect heavies and assaults. They are less mobile as well. They twist slower, run slower, and reposition slower as well. So on the whole, PTS light vs PTS heavy/assault, you probably won't see much difference.

Second, you are assuming that you will be able to play the game in exactly the same way as before. This is also incorrect. You will have to adjust your tactics. The lower deceleration will mean you can't hill or corner peek in quite the same way because you can't stop and back up as quickly.

Those are really the only two quibbles I have with your pronouncement especially given that I watched a streamer today on PTS use lights extremely effectively.

Again, comparing Live to PTS will make it appear that the PTS is going to "ruin everything" because of the baseline starting point for mechs in the PTS is much lower than what Live has. This isn't bad, it just means a change in tactics.

On a side note, my Urbanmech is absolutely badass in the PTS compared to Live.

l33tworks, on 02 March 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

I predicted this would happen. Its due to the engine mobility disconnect. Dont worry this wont make it live and if it does it will be quickly patched out or changes reverted or lights and mediums will get a huge boost to base mobility.

Why do you think the engine mobility disconnect won't make it to live? I think it absolutely makes sense to disconnect engine size to things like turn rate, yaw speed, etc. and hope it does go live.

[Chados]

It's an interesting point that all mechs are getting nerfed across the board like this, thus making the net change mech to mech zero. Does it really work that way? I can't get a match, so I haven't been able to test that.

But does this affect Clan and IS mechs the same way? It's going to be a real kick in the shins if IS heavies, for example, are busted back down to 65kph and zippo for general mobility, while you have Linebackers running at the same 104kph of a Phoenix Hawk and dancing like a ballerina. You get that in live now, and it's frustrating. But a Jester bone stock at least can run at 79 and keep up with a NASCAR run. You have to check off an awful lot of nodes in the mobility tree for that five extra kph now. That's a pretty harsh tradeoff.

I don't run enough Clans to know the answer to this question, frankly. Ignore the Clan Wolf banner on my left. That's my unit's choice and I only own enough Clan mechs to staff up a dropdeck (Wave 3 invasion variants and the Marauder IICs) so I can run with them.

Edited by Chados, 02 March 2017 - 07:52 PM.

[Flying Blind]

the difference in mobility for an unskilled mech compared to a mastered mech is really slight. in fact the majority of these skills are pretty minor so I really don't feel like it's all that worth while to take them and grind them out.

very frustrating and not fun. at least let lights and fast mediums be agile. please

[Flying Blind]

so a Marauder with zero skills can turn a full circle in 3.5 seconds
a CN9-D running 128KPH (XL 370 engine) or a Viper running 140 can run a circle around a target 40KM away in 5.5 seconds
in live this seems about true also but a good pilot can vary his speed increasing turn rate and double back and pull tricks to stay behind his target. it's called dog-fighting like in airplanes and it is fun and interesting and an intellectual challenge while also being a shooting game. with the way mobility is in the PTS dog-fighting doesn't work

city fights are a joke because you can't avoid running into buildings.

in real life fast vehicles also tend to accelerate fast and stop fast. when a locust stops like a freight train that's not fun.

[l33tworks]

Vidarion, on 02 March 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

Why do you think the engine mobility disconnect won't make it to live? I think it absolutely makes sense to disconnect engine size to things like turn rate, yaw speed, etc. and hope it does go live.

Because Thats whats causing these mobility problems. You cant just have all mechs lights behaving the same mobility wise based on their weight class alone. The engines in relation to their tonnage need to matter, as they have so far. The whole game has been balanced around it for 5 years.

Edited by l33tworks, 02 March 2017 - 09:41 PM.

[Deathlike]

I almost think the title of the thread should be "The Cleansing of Role Warfare". It exists... rarely. Now there's no point to other things unless you're a Heavy and/or Assault.

Just wonderful.

Balance is apparently spot on perfect.

[anfadern]

Opened everything regarding agility on a PB locust just to compare how it will act.

It is surprisingly sluggish... Not certain if the skill tree is working properly, but yet again all
the mechs will be affected in various ways so it might be as it is supposed.

If it works as intended. the Locust is worthless. It stops and starts just like a basic mech
with no skills opened in the current system.