26 replies to this topic

[HANGMAN1962]

ok so i used the a1 as a reference to these skill trees.
soo to get my a1 to have every thing it has now cost me 131 skill points now to custemize it w/the missile weapons skills sent it to a total of 179 skill point soo pls tell me how this isnt a braod bassed nerf hammer for this game in its intirety?!!
now i've beem a paying custemer sence early beta[vet.founder] and spend on this game every yr now you want me to pay for less of a game then i have been paying for?!
you need duable the skill point to do anything w. a mech no lie! any one telling you other wise is stroking your ego!!dont try and tell me why i should pay for less of a game then i all ready have been playing. if you use this tree system as is thats what your doing!
91 points wont even cover the skils from besic and elite never mind the mods and querks lmao.
is this your new marketing statagy pay more for less?
if so its a great way to kill your company guys!

[Ruar]

One thing is I think they are trying to actually cut down some on all of the returns. Another aspect is it's easy to focus on one or two areas that are hard to get back and miss some of the others.

What would be very useful is if you would compile two lists. The first should show the bonus values you are getting on live, the second what you can get on PTS with your 91 pts. You might be surprised at what you are able to take.

Keep in mind it seems the devs are trying to slow down TTK so you probably won't get 100% of your offensive power back, but that's affecting pretty much everyone.

[HANGMAN1962]

i need 12o+ point to get the skills i have not even getting to the weapons tree omfg are you kidding me?!
do as you sugest and i get a slug the cant turn wont move out of its own way and overheats at the drop of a dime!!!!!!!!!
but hay your damage gets nerfed when you overheat so lets run with that omg pls no!

[Bellum Dominum]

yeah sadly they have already said that it is NOT their intent that we are able to get back 100% of what we had before...

not crazy about that but do have to keep it in mind

[Amsro]

Don't have an elitist attitude. Yeah you get nerfed... EVERYONE got nerfed.

The whole point of this PTS game is to nerf everything. The power creep has been real and the game was getting out of hand. Only a few mechs were really great while the rest were poop.

The game will not be as crazy as the current one. It will be slower, hotter and more heavy feeling.

You won't be able to make your mech the best of everything anymore. Builds that aren't boats will matter more, playstyles will vary, the game will evolve.

MASC mechs will now have their own advantages worthy of the tonnage and risk.

There are lots of reasons this will be better, but you cannot look at it from a personal point of view.

[Ruar]

Taking the full mobility branch doesn't cost that much. It sounds like you are exaggerating so you need to show where you are putting your points and the results compared to live.

We'll never get the same amount of heat mitigation back because the values are lower. I haven't seen anything that indicates we get less mobility though.

[Amsro]

HANGMAN1962, on 03 March 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

i need 12o+ point to get the skills i have not even getting to the weapons tree omfg are you kidding me?!
do as you sugest and i get a slug the cant turn wont move out of its own way and overheats at the drop of a dime!!!!!!!!!
but hay your damage gets nerfed when you overheat so lets run with that omg pls no!

What is your catapult build? I've taken out my catapult in the PTS and wrecked face. Didn't find it to be all the sluggish at all.

Ruar, on 03 March 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Taking the full mobility branch doesn't cost that much. It sounds like you are exaggerating so you need to show where you are putting your points and the results compared to live.

We'll never get the same amount of heat mitigation back because the values are lower. I haven't seen anything that indicates we get less mobility though.

Everything seems to run more sluggish in the PTS, the entire game feels more sluggish, but I think its for the best. We'll see.

[Ruar]

Amsro, on 03 March 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

What is your catapult build? I've taken out my catapult in the PTS and wrecked face. Didn't find it to be all the sluggish at all.



Everything seems to run more sluggish in the PTS, the entire game feels more sluggish, but I think its for the best. We'll see.

One huge issue is the fact they put in decoupling and the skill tree at the same time. We should have them each alone. Decoupling first to work out the bugs. Then skill tree next. With both of them going on at the same time there is no way to know if sluggishness is from skills or decoupling. Personally I'm assuming 10% accel/decel is the same 10% on live and any issues with sluggishness are the result of decoupling, but that is an assumption.

[Amsro]

Ruar, on 03 March 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

One huge issue is the fact they put in decoupling and the skill tree at the same time. We should have them each alone. Decoupling first to work out the bugs. Then skill tree next. With both of them going on at the same time there is no way to know if sluggishness is from skills or decoupling. Personally I'm assuming 10% accel/decel is the same 10% on live and any issues with sluggishness are the result of decoupling, but that is an assumption.

I can't prove it yet but from personal testing on the PTS hard break at max %25 actually increases your brake distance by %25

In my locust I could come to full stop from max in roughly 3 seconds, once I maxed hard brake it was closer to 4 seconds.

Again I don't have any proof yet, maybe someone that can dig into the actual files can find the numbers. Might be as simple as a +/- issue.

There are some mechs with 2 decimals off on their accel/decel values, making them take ages to get up to speed and then stay there even when powered down. haha.

So there are for sure issues. I'm hoping for a hot fix so we can test the game out better/ more accurately.

[HANGMAN1962]

its 40 point for mobility alone no go sensors what another 20+,hell theres 2/3rds your points rite there
ok doing the math its 92 points for mobility.operations and sensors alone now can you see ware im going?!
you need all of these to get any wares near what you have ingame now

Edited by HANGMAN1962, 03 March 2017 - 07:16 AM.

[Ruar]

HANGMAN1962, on 03 March 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

its 40 point for mobility alone no go sensors what another 20+,hell theres 2/3rds your points rite there

And yet you don't need all of the arm nodes. You probably don't need AMS. There are a lot of items you don't need compared to what is live. Until you run the numbers all you have is speculation. Due to confirmation bias and tendency for people to focus on the negative all of your speculation is going to skew your opinion to the point it's not reliable.

[Bellum Dominum]

Hrmmm okay this post made me wonder why my own CPLT-A1 would be skilled as.

This is an old build that I don't play often anymore but it's simple: 6XLRM5

To get the best out of the weapon tree it only cost me 30 pts:
LRM CAPACITY +18 (that is for each ton of ammo)
MISSILE CRIT DAMAGE +15% (I really don't agree with this being missile specific and was mistakenly thinking it was SRM specific before going to look at this, so thanks OP for getting me to look at it more.)
MISSILE SPREED -6%
COOLDOWN -3.2%
HEAT -5%
RANGE +9%
VELOCITY +20%

That is is a pretty solid list of weapon bonuses for an lrm boat.

ARMOR STRUCTURE 20 pts
Every node except the ams nodes.

SENSOR SYSTEMS 12 pts
Basically sensor range, target decay, and seismic sensor

Miscellaneous 7 pts
extra consumable slot, extra cool shot, coolshot cooldown, both enhanced coolshots... so now I can run 1 uav (to pop if lights get on me to help the team to see them and give me support) and two ehanced coolshots to help me keep the rain going

Jump Jets 9 pts
basically focused on increasing the duration of my jj's burn and their lift speed.

AGILITY the remaining 13 pts
arm pitch, kinetic burst, torso pitch, torso yaw (this one being really important), torso speed, and a touch of hard brake

.... so sure I could go crazy and dump more points into agility... but it's really not needed... not sure why you feel you need EVERYTHING under the sun.

What is your build anyways? This would work for lrms or srms....

Edited by Bellum Dominum, 03 March 2017 - 07:16 AM.

[HANGMAN1962]

ok soo you dont want radar dep then?or target info maybe 360 target retention target decay maybe?cus radardep tarrget info and 360 tatget retention is perdy much standerd on an a1 lmao
whether or not you use lrms or srms!! lol
and your mech works just as good in pts server as it do's in live server?!
if you want full radar dep you need the full tree same for coolent full speed tweak any one or slow as all fu#@%$ IS FINE BY YOU MAYBE?
EVEN IF YOU MAX OUT SPEED TWEAK YOU LOSE 3 KPH FROM WHAT AN A1 DO'S NOW!
81.SOMTHING DOWN TO 78.9KPH ON PTS SERVER

Edited by HANGMAN1962, 03 March 2017 - 07:35 AM.

[Bellum Dominum]

no I don't want derp, I actually had decay listed, 360 target retention.. no not needed for this that is mainly for dealing with lights or as a light to keep a lock for lrms as you are running away, or for streak boats. but it certainly is something that could be added in with some tweaking which you would of course do if you are running something different than lrms.

PSST: I've been running this mech since beta. and no those aren't standard. perhaps today among people that are learning.. and learning from the wrong people especially.

I actually just came back from a match in it on tourmaline (hottest ambient temp map in the game) and yes it almost felt the same, it actually worked better in some ways (jj's largely). honestly about the only mech build so far I can say that about that I've tested with the new pts.

Edited by Bellum Dominum, 03 March 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[HANGMAN1962]

Ruar, on 03 March 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

And yet you don't need all of the arm nodes. You probably don't need AMS. There are a lot of items you don't need compared to what is live. Until you run the numbers all you have is speculation. Due to confirmation bias and tendency for people to focus on the negative all of your speculation is going to skew your opinion to the point it's not reliable.

YOU MEEN WHAT YOU DONT NEED AS I MOST SERTENLY DO NEED AMS AS IT PART OF WHAT I HAVE ALLREADY PAID FOR OVER THE PAST 5 FRIKIN YRS! DDD!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bellum Dominum]

In fact I just made a change to the build. Dropping two tons of ammo to add 2 more jj's. 3300+ rounds is a tad over kill honestly but the additional jj's will come in very handy... I noticed in that match I could stay up in the air a nice amount of time in order to hold my own lock and rain... something I've always done a tad but wasn't able to this well before.

HANGMAN1962, on 03 March 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

YOU MEEN WHAT YOU DONT NEED AS I MOST SERTENLY DO NEED AMS AS IT PART OF WHAT I HAVE ALLREADY PAID FOR OVER THE PAST 5 FRIKIN YRS! DDD!!!!!!!!!!!

What is your build? Seriously. If you are running all lrms.. then you most certainly don't need AMS as you shouldn't be getting targeted for lrms hardly ever. (but again if it is a must have for you you could easy make a couple light changes to what I posted and get both the ams buffs without losing much ... I'd say take from the jj's tree for it) I'm a fan of ams so I'm not meaning to sound as if running it is bad because if nothing else you are supporting your team by having it.

Edited by Bellum Dominum, 03 March 2017 - 07:44 AM.

[Bellum Dominum]

uh yeah I have to agree troll I think is exactly what is going on. #1 streak cat wasn't a scourge however srm cat was. streak cat was only deadly against lights and mainly because of the hitreg issues. 6srm2s a scourge vs 6srm6s prior to ghost heat. you are trolling us aren't you?

thanks for the laugh though

[Bellum Dominum]

so yeah I took the same build into a regular match to compare with fresh experience.

mobility (torso twist mainly) is a touch better with the current system but not by much
jump jet mobility is A LOT worse in the current system than with the new skill tree

heat control... about the same a touch better in the current system but not by much
rate of fire... pretty much identical...
ammo count: is 380 less so yeah can definitely cut out two tons of ammo to add a couple more jjs for even more jj mobility in the new system... or hey you like ams on this mech add that

most set ups I've tried out so far I lean towards agreeing with the complaints about them but in this case... sorry man but I just don't. I went to looking into it for my own experience with it and to see if I could offer any help for you. Not many of us A1 pilots in the game especially these days so was looking forward to an actual conversation on where they will be going with the new skill system.

so far... I have to say the skill setup I came up with barring some drastic changes is exactly what I'd use at implementation

[Amsro]

HANGMAN1962, on 03 March 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

its 40 point for mobility alone no go sensors what another 20+,hell theres 2/3rds your points rite there
ok doing the math its 92 points for mobility.operations and sensors alone now can you see ware im going?!
you need all of these to get any wares near what you have ingame now

But you need to realize the entire point is to bring mechs down in ability game wide.

So you see EVERYONE has the same decisions to make as you do. This means builds will vary, won't be as cut and dry which build stat choice is the best.

More variants of more chassis will be usable in this balance scheme.

Got to take a step back and realize this isn't a personal attack on you and your Catapult.

Edit; testing my StreakA1 as we speak. I'll report back as soon as I find a match or two.

Edited by Amsro, 03 March 2017 - 08:20 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

um how? how is it costing you so many points to get your Cat A1 to where it is now?
the A1 only lost 10% missile Velocity, and if your talking about mobility that feels different because of the decoupaging,
its likely some mobility stats will change in the near future as this is the first PTS since said decoupaging,