62 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

Nah, Vapor Eagle is the better option until they make STD engines actually worthwhile compared to cXLs.

I actually run a few of my builds with STDs, ever since that 40% mobility nerf on ST loss blasphemy. Might as well just call it death on ST loss now lol.
In fact, a couple of instances where XL vs STD benefit is semi-negligible. Supernova is one of em due to the low engine cap. I can run the 325 in it and have a 68 alpha, plus be packed with DHS - thing still runs hot tho.
That said, it is easier to get away with a STD on a Clan mech than an IS one and bring decent firepower, just somewhat balanced from heat efficiency - which is nill for Clan.

[Metus regem]

Widowmaker1981, on 03 March 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

The thing to remember though is that, unlike TT, its not a binary choice between 5/8 and 4/6. You can run a 350 and be faster than the Kodiak can ever be, but get 11.5 tons back.

Yup, I was just pointing out that what I did was based on keeping the stock engine in place, if one is willing to slow the mech down, they get considerably more space to work with... Enough to do quad UAC/10's (with 3.5t of ammo) or quad 5's (with 12.5t ammo and 4 JJ's), if you are willing to take it down to a 320 series.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 03 March 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

I actually run a few of my builds with STDs, ever since that 40% mobility nerf on ST loss blasphemy. Might as well just call it death on ST loss now lol.

Not even close. Its still possible to clutch matches after losing a side with a Clan XL. I've done it and I've seen it done by others on a daily basis.

Currently, I only run a STD if I need to cram 2 Gauss rifles into one side torso.

Admittedly, I may consider it more often for a few specific mechs if the engine de-coupling goes through.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JackalBeast, on 03 March 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

I actually run a few of my builds with STDs, ever since that 40% mobility nerf on ST loss blasphemy. Might as well just call it death on ST loss now lol.

The speed/mobility nerf is 20%, the heat dissipation nerf is 40%.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 March 2017 - 11:41 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 March 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

Not even close. Its still possible to clutch matches after losing a side with a Clan XL. I've done it and I've seen it done by others on a daily basis.

Currently, I only run a STD if I need to cram 2 Gauss rifles into one side torso.

Admittedly, I may consider it more often for a few specific mechs if the engine de-coupling goes through.

Being pedantic... I do that quite a bit.
I'm being serious about the Supernova tho, you can run the max 325 cap and still hold up ok.
SNV-B

Edited by JackalBeast, 03 March 2017 - 11:44 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 March 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

Even if it doesn't get you any more agility? Its worth throwing one 10 on there to side step ghost heat IMO.

Well, id have to build it to decide, but i think the speed you gain is possibly worth it until the engine weights start getting silly past 350.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JackalBeast, on 03 March 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Being pedantic... I do that quite a bit.
I'm being serious about the Supernova tho, you can run the max 325 cap
SNV-B

That's still a sub-optimal build though compared to the other options, like cLPL/cERML boats.

[Jackal Noble]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

The speed/mobility nerf is 20%, the heat dissipation nerf is 40%.

Really. So they retained original 20% mobility nerf to CxL, but then doubled down on the heat dissipation and brought it to 40%?
hmmmph

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 03 March 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Being pedantic... I do that quite a bit.
I'm being serious about the Supernova tho, you can run the max 325 cap and still hold up ok.
SNV-B

Yeah I kept the XL on the -B and threw on a TC6 and run 8 MPLs. 392 m range on the MPLs is nice, plus any crits I'm getting. That mech has 37 kills and 2 deaths so far, most of which is during leveling.

Also, isn't the 40% nerf only on the 10 base engine DHS? Or is it on the engine heat sink slots as well?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 03 March 2017 - 11:47 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 March 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Also, isn't the 40% nerf only on the 10 base engine DHS? Or is it on the engine heat sink slots as well?

Engine heat sink slots as well.

[Jackal Noble]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

That's still a sub-optimal build though compared to the other options, like cLPL/cERML boats.

Suboptimal Schmubtompinal.

Yes, most cases, JUST AS IN WITH INNER SPHERE MECHS, it is to your benefit to run an XL. All I stated, was that in a few cases, an STD can be pulled off without too much firepower trade off. HighlanderIIC is another that can do it somewhat ok.

Primarily it's because
I like that thing called choice
- I can choose to run a build that, although doesn't max out my fire power, it allows me to retain my terribad heat efficiency in the event of a ST loss. So again, if I can fire more with my lower damage output(minorly) after ST loss it's moot if I do just as much if not more damage, than if I had a CXL.
- I can choose to run suboptimal ER larges or I can use lasers that work.

Besides most Clan mechs die from CT than ST because of their big noses.

Edited by JackalBeast, 03 March 2017 - 11:57 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JackalBeast, on 03 March 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

All I stated, was that in a few cases, an STD can be pulled off without too much firepower trade off.

Yes, and that is on mechs with an unfortunately low engine cap and/or no good number of ballistic mounts. That doesn't mean STD engines are good, just that in some cases you don't have enough tonnage to do much else with the mech. A Dakka Mauler would love to run an XL if it could actually fit it with all the dakka, almost all torso-AC40 mechs would LOVE to run that with an XL, but again, you can't fit it. Mechs like the Supernova and Highlander IIC would love to mount large engines like the Marauder IIC, but they can't.

Either way, that isn't choice, that is being left without choice.

JackalBeast, on 03 March 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

Besides most Clan mechs die from CT than ST because of their big noses.

Maybe if you don't know how to twist. Timby, Supernova, Marauder IIC, Night Gyr, etc I seem to lose sides on before I lose my CT.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 March 2017 - 12:00 PM.

[Clanner Scum]

I want a Black Lanner...

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Maybe if you don't know how to twist. Timby, Supernova, Marauder IIC, Night Gyr, etc I seem to lose sides on before I lose my CT.

Yeah, losing the CT first on those is typically a sign of my being lazy, greedy, or some combination of the two.

[Jackal Noble]

MAD-IIC-D

Here's another that can pull it off.
Could use some more tweaking, but again somewhat viable - yes CXL is superior, not contesting that, at all.

Torso twisting is rudimentary, just stating an observation.

This room is getting to stuffy, gonna step out

[Jackal Noble]

MAD-IIC-D

forgot the ecm, which makes that chassis...

[Tordin]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

I can tell you aren't a big light mech pilot because you listed the Cougar which would basically be a worse Adder. I love the look of the Cougar and I feel nostalgia for it, but I'm also aware of how horribly it would suck where it is stuck as a 5/8 light where BV isn't here to save it.

Worse Adder? The Jade Falcons used the Adder as a basis to make the Cougar, a bit slower but packs alot more punch. If you want to pilot a slow clan light, go all in fo it. Because the Cougar would be my preferred choice.
I have ALOT of memories playing around with the cougar from past MW games, MC and even MA. I want it, I NEED it!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tordin, on 03 March 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

The Jade Falcons used the Adder as a basis to make the Cougar, a bit slower but packs alot more punch.

"A lot more" is an overstatement. You lose 16.2kph (ie you go as slow as a Nova, Huntsman, etc), for only 2 tons of extra firepower. Sorry but no, the Cougar is not magically super awesome. This is also ignoring it would have the opposite problem the Adder currently has in that its side torsos would be huge.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 March 2017 - 12:42 PM.

[Metus regem]

Tordin, on 03 March 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

Worse Adder? The Jade Falcons used the Adder as a basis to make the Cougar, a bit slower but packs alot more punch. If you want to pilot a slow clan light, go all in fo it. Because the Cougar would be my preferred choice.
I have ALOT of memories playing around with the cougar from past MW games, MC and even MA. I want it, I NEED it!

To mount the armament it does, it's less armoured than the Adder and moves at Timber Wolf speeds.... that is problematic in MWO for a light.... I say this as someone with a few hundred drops in an Adder... Even the Adder is a little on the slow side fora light... Still a 35t mech with a 175 series engine is going to have three external DHS, that puts it at a disadvantage even against the Adder...

Now don't get me wrong, the Cougar is decent in TT, but in MWO I'm not convinced it will be as good as some people remember it being from older games....

[Lances107]

Metus regem, on 03 March 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

To mount the armament it does, it's less armoured than the Adder and moves at Timber Wolf speeds.... that is problematic in MWO for a light.... I say this as someone with a few hundred drops in an Adder... Even the Adder is a little on the slow side fora light... Still a 35t mech with a 175 series engine is going to have three external DHS, that puts it at a disadvantage even against the Adder...

Now don't get me wrong, the Cougar is decent in TT, but in MWO I'm not convinced it will be as good as some people remember it being from older games....

He is not talking about TT, too many people draw reference from TT, and as one guy who got going on MW2 I never touched TT at all. As for the cougar it has one advantage its missile mounts. I can not remember the specifics for this mech, via MW4, but my guess would be four srm 6s, with a what four pulse lasers. It could work, but even in MW4 this mech was no speedster, I could see the cougar as a heavy assault light mech in invasions. Only if they get off there rear and raise the tonage for clan side invasions. Although knowing them they will probably nerf it another 10 tons. As for quick play I agree problematic at best.