30 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

Just thinking about the latest changes to the skill tree after I tested it in round one of PTS I have to say, "**** got real."

Think about it what will be the go to nodes? Even when you go for what you think are the go to nodes you will miss out on other nodes. It is fact because PGI designed the system as, "If you want that then say good bye to this."

So if you want that uber radar derp and do not have ecm module well guess what you might want to either get an ecm mech or find what really matters to you when lrms start falling on your head. Otherwise your mech will be dead.

I can see myself just go out and day one build an uber lrm 5 medium mech. Node it out just to support the lrm 5s and then go back and find what I need to make it survive. Then drop into a match and see who is, and who isn't spending their nodes on radar derp.

Or I could see myself getting out my Atlas DDC and then just pile on armor, structure, and weapon nodes. Saying screw you to the radar derp because I have ECM and then troll people on maps like river city. "Oh you thought this was going to be a soft Atlas, like the pillsbury doughboy. Well think again."

What I am trying to point out is that this term meta that we have, might be harder for us to nail down for awhile. At least until some people with way to much time on their hands and are spreadsheet warriors find the magic nodes to go with those meta builds.

So be prepared MWO will be chaotic in the cue for awhile, but always remember team work is OP and always will be.

Edited by Clownwarlord, 03 March 2017 - 02:04 AM.

[WolvesX]

Should this be in PTS feedback?

... PTS has more problems:

- Consumables cost 50% more now.
- Lights & Meds play like bricks.
- Underpreformers get nerfed (bit.ly/2m09E7X)

[Clownwarlord]

WolvesX, on 03 March 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

Should this be in PTS feedback?

... PTS has more problems:

- Consumables cost 50% more now.
- Lights & Meds play like bricks.
- Underpreformers get nerfed (bit.ly/2m09E7X)

Well no I do not believe this thread should be in PTS section. Here is why, because this has more to do with theory craft when it hits live servers instead of having to do with PTS. Examples of that are:

Clownwarlord, on 03 March 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

I can see myself just go out and day one build an uber lrm 5 medium mech. Node it out just to support the lrm 5s and then go back and find what I need to make it survive. Then drop into a match and see who is, and who isn't spending their nodes on radar derp.

Or

Clownwarlord, on 03 March 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

Or I could see myself getting out my Atlas DDC and then just pile on armor, structure, and weapon nodes. Saying screw you to the radar derp because I have ECM and then troll people on maps like river city. "Oh you thought this was going to be a soft Atlas, like the pillsbury doughboy. Well think again."

Or

Clownwarlord, on 03 March 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

What I am trying to point out is that this term meta that we have, might be harder for us to nail down for awhile. At least until some people with way to much time on their hands and are spreadsheet warriors find the magic nodes to go with those meta builds.

Or lastly

Clownwarlord, on 03 March 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

So be prepared MWO will be chaotic in the cue for awhile, but always remember team work is OP and always will be.

Which if you add all those quotes is the majority of my post which is all theory craft AFTER it is on live servers.

***

Now for your other parts of your post:

WolvesX, on 03 March 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

... PTS has more problems:

- Consumables cost 50% more now.
- Lights & Meds play like bricks.
- Underpreformers get nerfed (bit.ly/2m09E7X)

Really consumables cost 50% more? Haven't seen anything in the literature (yes I like to read, and as I stated earlier I have not been in round "2" of the PTS just round "1".

Lights and Mediums are not as maneuverable? Well that should be all mechs being less maneuverable because the engine changes will affect all mechs, and then it can be mitigated/made better than before. The movement nodes from what I have seen of the latest literature count up to being better if not equal to what is before, BUT still you will take the hit because of the engines because all mechs are taking the hit because of the engine changes.

Under performers get nerfed? To be honest all mechs are getting nerfed, and no I do not mean the engine nerfs. But because PGI has the new philosophy of, "You want that, then we are taking this away," through their new skill tree will cause mechs that may have been good at a lot of things to be more limited. Those good at one thing might still only be good at that one thing, but mechs not good at anything will still not be good at nothing.

Edited by Clownwarlord, 03 March 2017 - 02:54 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

Here is a quote from the literature I have found that explains why you may feel more sluggish than before. Especially if you do not node out movement.

Quote

With Mobility Quirks now rolled into the base Mobility attributes of individual 'Mech variants, Skill Nodes will have greater influence over the final Mobility attributes of a ‘Mech when compared to the impact previously seen under the Quirk system.

Edited by Clownwarlord, 03 March 2017 - 02:42 AM.

[chucklesMuch]

Clownwarlord, on 03 March 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

Here is a quote from the literature I have found that explains why you may feel more sluggish than before. Especially if you do not node out movement.

Maxed out mobility skills on a lct pb and a vpr... they do not feel the same as they are currently. Straight line speed the same I think ~165 and ~139? Handling though, its like they are a bit drunk; don't turn as tightly and really don't wish to stop... two of my more fun mechs... not so fun at the moment.

[Clownwarlord]

chucklesMuch, on 03 March 2017 - 03:16 AM, said:

Maxed out mobility skills on a lct pb and a vpr... they do not feel the same as they are currently. Straight line speed the same I think ~165 and ~139? Handling though, its like they are a bit drunk; don't turn as tightly and really don't wish to stop... two of my more fun mechs... not so fun at the moment.

That probably has more to do with the engine changes which I said did nerf everything, and the changes are a good thing. Here is why.

OK currently you have mobility of a mech based off of

Base Line Stat * Engine * Quirk * Skills = Mobility

The new way

Base Line Stat * Skills = Mobility

The reason why this is better is because now it will allow PGI to make a pass later to only "1" thing instead of having multiple other variable weighing in on it. But to be honest this is just going off of what NGNG Phil said during his latest PTS run on twitch. I would feel better if Russ actually came out and said "Hey don't worry we will make a base line changes after the new skill tree goes in and we have better statistics from the live servers. Why then and not in PTS? Because not enough participate in PTS and that is why PTS is 4 v 4 and Live is 12 v 12."

Mind you I am more optimistic where it seems some are more OMG SKY IS FALLING!!!

[Marius Romanis]

Admins I demand you move thread to correct forum

Clownwarlord, on 03 March 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

[Vellron2005]

Hey, the radar derp nodes mean that my mechs will actually start using radar derp.. I could not afford them before.. now they come for XP.. awesome

[Unnatural Growth]

Except they are buried at the bottom of the tree under a whole PILE of useless shizzlenitt that you have to PAY for in both Cbills and XP to unbury the actual skills you want.

They made it worse, not better this time around.

But that's just PGI doing what they do best.

[Chip Danger]

OldOrgandonor, on 03 March 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

Except they are buried at the bottom of the tree under a whole PILE of useless shizzlenitt that you have to PAY for in both Cbills and XP to unbury the actual skills you want.

They made it worse, not better this time around.

But that's just PGI doing what they do best.

The made it so you have to give up something to get something. Its not worse just a little hard to get used to.

[Clanner Scum]

I'm not liking the skill tree.

If I want just cooldown for my weapons I shouldn't have to waste skill points on a bunch of other crap I don't need.

PGI needs to tread carefully with this because this is one of those game development moves that have seen games die over night. I'm very worried that this new skill tree will be the final nail in the coffin.

[Chip Danger]

Clanner Scum, on 03 March 2017 - 05:28 AM, said:

I'm not liking the skill tree.

If I want just cooldown for my weapons I shouldn't have to waste skill points on a bunch of other crap I don't need.

PGI needs to tread carefully with this because this is one of those game development moves that have seen games die over night. I'm very worried that this new skill tree will be the final nail in the coffin.

They are doing this to balance the game. If we all just got everything on a mech we wanted it would be a meta stomping ground with only the very high weapon mounted mechs seeing any play. And that would kill the game just as fast as a skill tree misstep. I see what they are trying to do they just need to work on a few little things to get there. The lights of both sides took an unneeded hit with the new tree and should be buffed a little back into mobility even before you dig into that tree.

[Skipmagnet]

Vellron2005, on 03 March 2017 - 04:37 AM, said:

Hey, the radar derp nodes mean that my mechs will actually start using radar derp.. I could not afford them before.. now they come for XP.. awesome

You still won't be able to afford them: Full nodes runs about 5mm cBills. Thankfully it's only a one-time cost (right now) but it's still space bucks I don't and won't have.

[Clanner Scum]

eyeballs, on 03 March 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

You still won't be able to afford them: Full nodes runs about 5mm cBills. Thankfully it's only a one-time cost (right now) but it's still space bucks I don't and won't have.

I just don't like how much SPs I have to invest to get radar deprivation. Radar derp is very important to have because so many people run LRM 100's on assaults and crap. It's easy to avoid LRMs if it's just one or two people on the opposing team but that's not how it plays out usually. Almost everyone carries atleast two LRM systems. If they're going to make radar derp such a big SP investment then they should nerf LRMs IMO.

And to all the tryhards who say l2p without radar derp:

Edited by Clanner Scum, 03 March 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[Amsro]

WolvesX, on 03 March 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

Should this be in PTS feedback?

... PTS has more problems:

- Consumables cost 50% more now.
- Lights & Meds play like bricks.
- Underpreformers get nerfed (bit.ly/2m09E7X)

Stop posting stuff like this, Lights and Mediums play just as brick like as Heavies and Assaults.

As in the ENTIRE game has been slowed down. Everyone thinks their special mech class got nerfed but it was an all around nerf.

The largest issue with the PTS is the way the accel and decel rates work (or don't). That is a major issue that overshadows the rest of the PTS. When you take hard brake and the mech takes longer to slow down this will effect lights and mediums more.

Gotta fix the actually mistakes then try to work on the balance.

[Jackal Noble]

CadoAzazel, on 03 March 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

Admins I demand you move thread to correct forum

Demand?
What is this, Mech Lives Matter?

[Jinn of 23]

[Mystere]

Rizzwind, on 03 March 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

They are doing this to balance the game.

From another thread:

Mystere, on 02 March 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

I prefer PGI adding meat to this still skeleton of a game. In the end, obsessing on balancing a skeleton results in nothing but the same skeleton.

I mean it's been several freaking years since release and the #1 obsession is still balance, not actual substantive game features.

Clanner Scum, on 03 March 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

I just don't like how much SPs I have to invest to get radar deprivation. Radar derp is very important to have because so many people run LRM 100's on assaults and crap. It's easy to avoid LRMs if it's just one or two people on the opposing team but that's not how it plays out usually. Almost everyone carries atleast two LRM systems. If they're going to make radar derp such a big SP investment then they should nerf LRMs IMO.

Nerf LRMs? Nerf trash to become even bigger trash?

Edited by Mystere, 03 March 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Skill tree with some changes will be excellent

Hey Admin, surely this goes in the PTS feed back section

[Alan Davion]

Mystere, on 03 March 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

I mean it's been several freaking years since release and the #1 obsession is still balance, not actual substantive game features.

Three words.

Clan.

Power.

Creep.

Someone back in the day thought it was a good idea to introduce the Clans only 3 freaking months after the game was "officially" released, and a year and 2 months after they went Open Beta.

Balance went out the window coming up on 4 flipping years ago and it ain't coming back. Ever.

Problem is PGI haven't gotten the memo on that yet.