15 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

One major concerns I have is that in order to skill out a mech you need to click way too much. The tedious clicking is a serious design issue that I think is worth addressing or mitigating in whatever sensible way you can figure out.

One way is an auto-fill. You know how when you deselect a skill it will automatically remove all skills below it that it was acting as a prerequisite for? That's a great idea, but it should also work the other way.

When a player selects a skill at the bottom it should automatically back-fill all the skills above it that get you to that skill. Then the player can go back and deselect the one or two skills he may not want or need. So instead of clicking 20 times in a single skill tree he may just have to click 2 or 3 times.

One final thing that I think will improve this process is to highlight the skills that will be added when you hover your mouse over a skill lower down. This "Hover preview" will give the player a better idea of where to click without having to actually click and then deselect.

Question: What do you do if there are multiple paths to one skill?

Answer:

One option is you just fill out all paths to that skill. Remember deselecting toward the top will auto remove all the prerequisite skills below. So you may only want to go down half the skill tree even though it selected 90% of them. You simply deselect one skill toward the top and it removes all skills it was acting as a prerequisite for.

Another option is to create some method for the game to get you to that skill using the least number of skills based on skill tree and skills already clicked. This would be a cleaner approach, but I don't know how technically challenging it would be.

We need a way to not only cut down on the confusion of navigating such complex skill-trees as the weapon one, but also a way to cut down on the time it takes to assign 91 skills for every mech. This would allow players to say to themselves: "Ok I am running UAC/5s I want those Jam-Chance skills whatever the cost." Then he clicks those skills that are at the bottom and it back-fills the rest.

Edited by Jman5, 04 March 2017 - 09:35 AM.

[R Valentine]

Really just need to delete the 91 point skill tree altogether. Merge nodes, put them in the correct order, don't gateway good skills with useless ones, and vastly reduce the number of points we have to buy. 91 is a really, really, stupid number. I'm thinking like 20, AT THE SAME COST IF NOT LESS. Not this ******** grind they have laid out for us. There's no reason for 10 separate laser duration nodes. You might be able to justify 5, but even then I'm thinking 3, all of the same value(5%) with an increasing cost in skill points spent per node.

[Talorien]

Jman5, on 04 March 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

One major concerns I have is that in order to skill out a mech you need to click way too much. The tedious clicking is a serious design issue that I think is worth addressing or mitigating in whatever sensible way you can figure out.

One way is an auto-fill. You know how when you deselect a skill it will automatically remove all skills below it that it was acting as a prerequisite for? That's a great idea, but it should also work the other way.

When a player selects a skill at the bottom it should automatically back-fill all the skills above it that get you to that skill. Then the player can go back and deselect the one or two skills he may not want or need. So instead of clicking 20 times in a single skill tree he may just have to click 2 or 3 times.

One final thing that I think will improve this process is to highlight the skills that will be added when you hover your mouse over a skill lower down. This "Hover preview" will give the player a better idea of where to click without having to actually click and then deselect.

Question: What do you do if there are multiple paths to one skill?

Answer:

One option is you just fill out all paths to that skill. Remember deselecting toward the top will auto remove all the prerequisite skills below. So you may only want to go down half the skill tree even though it selected 90% of them. You simply deselect one skill toward the top and it removes all skills it was acting as a prerequisite for.

Another option is to create some method for the game to get you to that skill using the least number of skills based on skill tree and skills already clicked. This would be a cleaner approach, but I don't know how technically challenging it would be.

We need a way to not only cut down on the confusion of navigating such complex skill-trees as the weapon one, but also a way to cut down on the time it takes to assign 91 skills for every mech. This would allow players to say to themselves: "Ok I am running UAC/5s I want those Jam-Chance skills whatever the cost." Then he clicks those skills that are at the bottom and it back-fills the rest.

Completely agree! Also need way to change GXP to XP selection for all skills (and vice versa), and also for individual skills. It's a huge drag when filing out the wrong choice by accident (must reselect everything)

[l33tworks]

Jman beleive it or not I was just about to post the same thing!

I would rather be able to have them all pre filled and and given a choice as to what NOT to take.

[Widowmaker1981]

yes, i was thinking exactly the same thing, or at least, if thats too hard for some reason, a button to select ALL nodes in a tree, and then you can just deselect

[Alistair Winter]

In my opinion, this would be treating the symptom rather than the disease. The system is too convoluted and the skill trees are a huge mess. 91 skill points is too much. That's the real problem.

[Bud Crue]

Alistair Winter, on 05 March 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

In my opinion, this would be treating the symptom rather than the disease. The system is too convoluted and the skill trees are a huge mess. 91 skill points is too much. That's the real problem.

Though I swore to stop spending on this game...

If the skills tree goes live in anything similar to what we are currently testing then I will be sponsoring the following contest:

Prizes: 2 basic mech packs (2ND and 3RD prize) and a mech and hero pack (1ST prize) for each weight class.

Terms of contest: provide by screen shot or written description of the most idealized 91 node selection for each weight class.

Since I am talking 3 potential winners for each weight class, I think I will ask for:
- a general this works for most mechs for most roles tree.
- depending on weight a tree for specific play style (a gauss/PPC meta tree for assaults and heavies, maybe a laser brawler for heavies and mediums, maybe an AC focused tree, a fast light tree for locusts, and cheetahs vs a shoot and scoot tree for Vipers, etc.

Winners will be selected based on "likes" and commentary. Normally I choose winners for my contests but think for this we need a cross section of opinions. Entrants should keep that vibe in mind and where advisable they should provide a brief explanation/justification for their branch selections.

While I have no doubt that the "works for most mechs for most roles" tree will be inevitably be established I'd like to incentivize folks to come up with some options that we can then share with the community to make the node selection process as easy as possible. Maybe get someone like gman or someone else with a recognized web presence to publish the best/most useful trees. Anyway that is where my head is at at the moment. PGI is making a mess of something that should be fun. And if it goes live I will do my part to getting folks to help fix it to the extent possible...or at least make node selection easier.

[Alistair Winter]

Bud Crue, on 05 March 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Though I swore to stop spending on this game...
If the skills tree goes live in anything similar to what we are currently testing then I will be sponsoring the following contest:

You've got too much money, Bud! Spend the money on charity instead!

But I'll be sure to check out your contest if it goes live.

[oldradagast]

The 91 point skill maze is nothing but an attempt to replace CONTENT with GRIND.

There is no logical reason for a skill tree to be this large and insanely complex, with tangled webs of skills locked behind unrelated skills, with mechs being forced to take literally useless trash (missile skills to get to laser skills on energy boats, etc.) just to get to the good skills.

Honestly, it looks like something out a Dilbert cartoon, where somebody got paid a bonus per skill he invented, so a 30 skill system ballooned to a 220 skill maze with 91 choices per mech.

Edited by oldradagast, 05 March 2017 - 08:15 AM.

[ThePonyBoy]

I don´t even care about the grind so much. I even think it is in an OK place right now. BUT: The OP is absolutely right about the ridiculous number of nodes. 91? REALLY?! Get rid of gatekeeper nodes, reduce total number and make nodes more expensive in CBills and XP for compensation. 91 is way too many.

[Bud Crue]

Alistair Winter, on 05 March 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

You've got too much money, Bud! Spend the money on charity instead!

But I'll be sure to check out your contest if it goes live.

My leisure time is minimal and precious. I am happy to spend money on the game. I don't play anything else and other than reading I don't have any other true leisure hobbies. The only reason I don't spend a ton more is because PGI keeps pissing me off and not spending is the only real action I have to send them a message. While I realize me spending on even a contest is contrary to that message, I think this is an exceptional circumstance. The skills tree (if it goes live in something like its current state) will be a HUGE detriment to the NPE and a real pain in the a55 to veteran players having to path-out hundreds of mechs. Having a well thought out shortcut (or three) for each weight class for that node path selection process could be at least a bit of a salve to this ridiculous process; and I will gladly help fund the establishment of those shortcuts.

[soapyfrog]

I agree that this would be treating a symptom that would be necessary if they just made a more compact and meaningfully designed tree.

If they stubbornly persist with the currently proposed design then what Jman suggests would be a good idea.

[Koniks]

It'd be a good idea if 1) there was a direct path to a skill that 2) didn't include wasting skill points.

They have to streamline the tree before they streamline skill selection.

Edited by Koniks, 05 March 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[Skribs]

Yeah, the problem is the game won't know which path you want to take. If they had linear skill trees (which they should) this would work better.

Or, if they had a simpler skill tree with bigger decisions, it would be better.

[Cpt Zaepp]

I agree.

But, how about a decent skill-tree where we don't have to put 91 points mostly into the same nodes over and over again?

Edited by Cpt Zaepp, 05 March 2017 - 04:49 PM.

[l33tworks]

Alistair Winter, on 05 March 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

In my opinion, this would be treating the symptom rather than the disease. The system is too convoluted and the skill trees are a huge mess. 91 skill points is too much. That's the real problem.

Dont say 91 skills are too much because even with 91 mechs are over nerfed accross the board compared to live...If you reduce them you will end up with very the same few important nodes everyone will take and all basic mechs otherwise. The problem is the fact you cant actually make the node selections you want because of the must haves or non linear nature of the skills. They force you to select pretty much the entire tree if decide to invest in a patticular tree no matter how you go about it.

Few skills will work ONLY of you are allowed to take what you want to take and no forced filler nodes.

Edited by l33tworks, 05 March 2017 - 08:43 PM.