19 replies to this topic

[Emden]

Think about it..... IS can buff their mechs and customize it based on their play style... BUT.... The Clan will add buffs (quirks) where they did not have quirks before....

Point: If Clan mechs become even more unbalanced then they are now... only Clan Mechs will be on the battle field. I am afraid Clan Mechs will become SUPER-MECHS!!!!!

As my Furby likes to say... "worry"

Edited by Emden, 05 March 2017 - 12:58 PM.

[ForceUser]

Clan and IS is pretty balanced, even on the PTS, though it would be interesitng to see them raise the survival tree by 25% for IS only. That will mkae it a have to pick though.

Doesn't matter, as soon as people can get over themselves about the Skill Tree we should be getting the new tech, mostly IS side. We'll be seeing a whole lot of clan buffing once that goes live as IS catches up tech wise.

That's gonna make every other PTS we've ever had look like a minor bug fix.

Edited by ForceUser, 05 March 2017 - 04:07 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

Having seen the OP play, I am inclined not to take him very seriously.

That said, there should be more differentiation between tech bases for certain (this will change with a tech advance mind you) as far as the skill trees are concerned, just like there should be differentiation between different chassis and weight classes. This is basically what we wanted out of quirks and PGI messed that all up. I don't see skill trees going live with unique trees for every single Mech family in the game. Not to mention Clan Omni's are inherently much stronger because of their customization capabilities.

Edited by Drunk Canuck, 05 March 2017 - 04:42 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I will say that the GHR-5P (or any GHR, really) on PTS with duration quirks and a STD engine is going to be ridiculously powerful. Even on a STD engine. Factor in the potential new-tech we will be getting this summer, and I'm not terribly concerned with the exception of pop-tarting.

[Emden]

Well, IS and Clan mechs are "balanced" now. The current quirks makes them balanced. If they take away any quirks from an IS mech and have both use the new skill tree, the IS will lose ground on the balance issue..... hope the new tech comes fast to try to balance it out again, meanwhile, IS mechs will sit and wait

[process]

Quirks aren't going to completely disappear. Certain chassis, including some Clan ones, need quirks to have any hope of being useful. The skill tree should be viewed as a mechanic to augment every chassis to a similar degree, and at best to balance IS vs Clan -- not to supplement struggling chassis..

[Queen of England]

Removing quirks in the PTS seems like a mistake. The skill tree is for customization, quirks are for balance. The systems don't really address the same issues at all.

[DeeHawk]

Queen of England, on 06 March 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

Removing quirks in the PTS seems like a mistake. The skill tree is for customization, quirks are for balance. The systems don't really address the same issues at all.

Since IS have higher numbers on their skill trees, yes it does.
I'm not happy about the numbers, but it does adress the issue.

*EDIT*
Wait a minute... Did they actually forget that for the new update?

The first update had (i.e):

IS: 1% cooldowns per node
Clan: 0.8% cooldowns per node

In the new update they mention it again: "Any differences in Skill Node values will be displayed in a table below each section when applicable"

But there is not a single table related to clan/is differences.....

Edited by DeeHawk, 06 March 2017 - 11:01 PM.

[Admiral-Dan]

The disassociating of Mech Mobility Attributes from Engine Size is a huge benefit for IS Battlemechs because Clan Omnimechs can’t adjust Engine Size and profit from it the way IS Battlemechs can.

[Oberost]

AlphaEtOmega, on 07 March 2017 - 04:50 AM, said:

The disassociating of Mech Mobility Attributes from Engine Size is a huge benefit for IS and Clan Battlemechs because Clan Omnimechs can’t adjust Engine Size and profit from it the way IS and Clan Battlemechs can.

FTFY...

[SpiralFace]

Oberost, on 07 March 2017 - 06:04 AM, said:

FTFY...

Did you play any of the clan battlemechs on PTS? They all got smacked pretty hard by this change.

[Oberost]

SpiralFace, on 07 March 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Did you play any of the clan battlemechs on PTS? They all got smacked pretty hard by this change.

He said that Clan omnimech can't change their engine size, forgetting that Clan Battlemechs can swap engines like IS mechs.

[MechaBattler]

I'm playing with a Vindicator. I can tell you that it acutely feels the loss of it's weapon quirks. Even the machine gun rate of fire quirk, which they don't even mention on quirk pdf. 3xMG Vindicator too stronk? Et tu PGI?

What if they gave under performers higher percentages on their skills,would that be enough? If they gave more points, I would run out of things worth taking in my eyes. Then again I could fill out the JJ tree without sacrifice on other things.

[R Valentine]

SpiralFace, on 07 March 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Did you play any of the clan battlemechs on PTS? They all got smacked pretty hard by this change.

How exactly did they get nerfed? I see no clan specific changes to speak of.

[ForceUser]

Kiran Yagami, on 07 March 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

How exactly did they get nerfed? I see no clan specific changes to speak of.

Some of them are noticeably less agile. Like a lot without agility skills. Agility and hard point locations is two of the bigger(biggest?) factors in the strength of a mech. Compare how the dakka Kodiak 2UAC10 + 2UAC5 overtook the dakka Direworlf 3 UAC5 + 2 UAC10 simply because the one could fit an XL 375 and the other could not change it's XL300 (and the hardpoints)

Edited by ForceUser, 07 March 2017 - 11:04 AM.

[R Valentine]

ForceUser, on 07 March 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

Some of them are noticeably less agile. Like a lot without agility skills. Agility and hard point locations is two of the bigger(biggest?) factors in the strength of a mech. Compare how the dakka Kodiak 2UAC10 + 2UAC5 overtook the dakka Direworlf 3 UAC5 + 2 UAC10 simply because the one could fit an XL 375 and the other could not change it's XL300 (and the hardpoints)

That's nothing that didn't happen to IS mechs, only IS mechs did have IS specific nerfs in the form of their quirks. So clan mechs still end up on top. In fact, they end up further on top than they did before.

[SpiralFace]

Oberost, on 07 March 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

He said that Clan omnimech can't change their engine size, forgetting that Clan Battlemechs can swap engines like IS mechs.

I'm well aware.

But swapping engines no longer matters in this PTS. Mobility is a baseline attribute, and as a result, changing your engine does not do anything to affect it.

As a result, your Kodiak's are as agile are a direwolf, your Mad IIC is only slightly more agile then a supernova, etc. etc.

Nearly every clan battlemech got a significant mobility reduction with the exceptions of the Highlander IIC and the Orion IIC, which from what I can tell pretty much stayed the same.

So to say that this change is a "HUGE" benefit to clan battlemechs as you fixed in the other guys quote is overall just false. (unless your referring to the Highlander IIC or Orion IIC.)

[Oberost]

SpiralFace, on 07 March 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

I'm well aware.

But swapping engines no longer matters in this PTS. Mobility is a baseline attribute, and as a result, changing your engine does not do anything to affect it.

As a result, your Kodiak's are as agile are a direwolf, your Mad IIC is only slightly more agile then a supernova, etc. etc.

Nearly every clan battlemech got a significant mobility reduction with the exceptions of the Highlander IIC and the Orion IIC, which from what I can tell pretty much stayed the same.

So to say that this change is a "HUGE" benefit to clan battlemechs as you fixed in the other guys quote is overall just false. (unless your referring to the Highlander IIC or Orion IIC.)

He stated that the mobility changes are a big nerf to Clan Omnimechs because they can't swap engines, not like IS mechs that can do it. He forgot that Clan Battlemechs can also change their engines, so I fixed it for him.

And anyway, even if the Clan Battlemechs are nerfed due to the mobility changes they are still probably some of the best (if not directly the best) mechs in this game (Kodiak, Marauder II, Hunchback II...). Oh, and don't forget that the Clan mobility nerf is compensated with the IS quirks reduction, so in the end I think that the Clan mechs (Omni and Battlemech alike) are better than before in terms of balance against the IS ones...

[Admiral-Dan]

SpiralFace, on 07 March 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

But swapping engines no longer matters in this PTS. Mobility is a baseline attribute, and as a result, changing your engine does not do anything to affect it.

So you can swap to a much smaller Engine and profit from the less weight of this engine and add more weapons and equipment.

Oberost, on 07 March 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

He stated that the mobility changes are a big nerf to Clan Omnimechs because they can't swap engines, not like IS mechs that can do it. He forgot that Clan Battlemechs can also change their engines, so I fixed it for him.

That’s right but the vast majority of Clan Mechs are Omnimechs, so all IS Mechs and only a few Clan Mechs can take advantage from this changes.

[Bradigus]

Majority of IS mechs have far greater mobility profiles than the clan mech of the same tonnage.

Clan mechs receive less percentage benefits from skill tree.

These combined together, mean that 'mechs like the Timber Wolf now have the movement profile of an 85 ton assault mech.

In addition most inner sphere mechs get to keep their weapon and structure quirks in some form, with the mobility quirks rolled into the baseline movement profile.

Inner Sphere mechs are actually more agile than clan mechs, and get more weapon, armor and speed benefits from the skill tree for a double whammy of nonsense.

Of what I've personally tested, clan mechs get hamfistedly pigeon-holed and battering rammed into one specific role. Jump sniper, turret, or corner peeker depending on jump jets and movement profile. There's nothing else for them.