108 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Bud Crue, on 07 March 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

I hope you're right. I have no reason to think you are, but I hope you are right.

Ya know, the hand wringing on this has been going on for about a week now over quirks, nerfs, and other related issues of the skills tree...

"...HEY! DEVS! Ya you guys who the white knights claim follow the forums and listen to our every concern...now would be a good time to comment on this and address some of the fears here. There are at least three active threads where multiple long term players are asserting their intention to leave the game over this stuff. Probably just blowing smoke sure, but still maybe a word or two on this might not be a bad idea to give the community some reason to believe that you have logical reasons for what you are doing and what those reasons may be? A little communication goes a long way. Just sayin."

Oh if skill tree goes out in the state it's in currently, they will be adding quirks back in. My estimate is just over a month after introduction when sales tank.

Edited by Cathy, 07 March 2017 - 08:56 AM.

[rollermint]

Yeah, I only own IS mechs and will still play them. I'm not too worried though, they may or may not be nerfed into the ground (they are weaker as they are...) and if playing IS mechs stop being fun, I'll just play another game for a while.

[Bud Crue]

Cathy, on 07 March 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

Oh if skill tree goes out in the state it's in currently, they will be adding quirks back in. My estimate is just over a month after introduction when sales tank.

Perhaps, but with the promise of mechs with NEW TECH! And the emphasis of late on clan mechs, I think they can go a heck of a lot longer than a month before the nostalgia junkies start holding back $. I think we are seeing the creation of legacy tech 1.0 if the skills tree goes live as is.

[ccrider]

As long as there are Atlas' in my hangar I will pilot IS mechs. Ya know, unless we're on a clan contract.

[Novakaine]

Oh I'll keep playing mine, but from the 6 or so hours I've put into the PTS.
It ain't looking good for the most part.
But I figure PGI has long since given the IS faction the finger.
If they can't figure out what's happening from FW they never will.
Personally I think this is the last huhah before MW5.
And we'll get "Mechpacks new downloadable content!"

Edited by Novakaine, 07 March 2017 - 09:36 AM.

[Alienized]

IS is skill. Clans are tech.

[Ken Harkin]

I like IS mechs.

I am looking forward to the changes with the skill trees and rediscovering mechs I haven't played for a while.

I am looking forward to re-configuring those mechs I do play within the new skill trees.

Nerf / Buff / Whatever... The pendulum always swings and each addition to the game creates a change. Play what you like.

[Weeny Machine]

Cathy, on 07 March 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Why should I stop, if they turn out as bad as the doomsayers say, quirks will be put back.

...in 3-5 months till enough "data was collected" hehe

[xe N on]

Cathy, on 07 March 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Why should I stop, if they turn out as bad as the doomsayers say, quirks will be put back.

It's probably will only take a short time until they adjust the quirks - e.g. the same time PGI needed to un-nerf the Victor and Highlander.

[Cabusha]

Let's put it this way. My clan account has a 56% winrate, while my IS has a 51%. Clans are already better, they're just going to get better post PTS.

[xe N on]

Cabusha, on 07 March 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Let's put it this way. My clan account has a 56% winrate, while my IS has a 51%. Clans are already better, they're just going to get better post PTS.

NO! It's clearly a skill thing. Playing clans you are simply more skilled.

[L Y N X]

I'll reserve judgement until the new skill point system goes live... Why would the devs undo all or most of the balancing just to begin again? let's all wait to condemn PGI until after they mess up, not before.

[Duke Nedo]

On the one hand I can understand removing agility quirks because to engine decoupling, that's sort of alright. It's a nerf to some of the best clan mechs relative to the STD engine IS mechs. So when comparing KDK-3 and TBR to mechs like STK-4N, MAL-MX90, WHM-BW or GRF-3M then I guess we're moving in the right direction. Note though that the NGR will not be affected as much so the powercreep-o-meter is still stable.

On the other hand, that last part is important. There is a family of IS builds (including many of the few viable IS builds) that are viable only because great agility and great shielding arms/hitboxes allow them to perform decently with an XL engine, which in turn allows them to carry a viable weapons loadout. I am thinking BLR-2C, BLR-1G, BNC-3M, WHM-6D, GHR-5P, BL-KNT, QKD-5K, SHD-2H etc. I expect these to take a really bit hit in performance when they can't twist fast enough housing an insta-death IS XL engine....

So, only considering the agility pre-nerfs I feel that IS loses many mechs that were at least performing decently in the current live build (though still notably worse than the best clan mechs). Slower builds may become more popular but they will generally carry less impressive loadouts compared to the faster clans counter-parts.

This is without considering that many mechs in addition to this also lost weapons quirks for absolutely no good reason at all!

All things considered, I can't in any way see that this is not a relative buff to Night Gyrs, Kodiaks, HBK-IIcs, MAD-IICs, etc. NGRs because their engine is near the base line, and all clan battlemechs because they didn't lose any quirks and can adjust to the agility nerf by dropping down in engine and use these savings for other things, just like IS battlemechs can.

The only clan top performer that is being taken down a notch from my perspective would be the TBR, which has a locked large engine. That's a nerf for sure. The KDK-3 as well to some degree, replacing the big engine with something equally useful may not be that easy.

TLDR: The removal of agility quirks is fine for the IS mechs that are using STD engines, but it can quickly turn now slow twisting XL-builds into death traps. In other words, IS are back to paying the huge engine tax of 9.5 tons for a 300 engine. That's huge.

TLDR2: Hands off the weapons quirks. There is no reason to touch them, the skill tree does not justify any change to weapon characteristics because unquirked mechs get access to the same skills as quirked mechs (both clans and IS ones).

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I'll probably end up using IS mechs a bit more after the skill update. I'll be able to stack armor bonuses with the armor boosts a lot of IS mechs have and become a super tank then maybe throw on some jump jet boosts. I could end up having a very well armored and jump capable Highlander or Victor. Right now both of those mechs are pretty much trash, but the jump jet boosts revive them.

[KingCobra]

I hate all the nerfs they have ruined the game in a lot of ways most IS mechs still have weak hit-boxes mostly CT and crap armor only the mechs made in the last year are any good at all as far as defense taking a lot of skill just to keep them alive.

But also the nerfs to the Clan mechs has ruined the game for me My once hard to kill Timberwolf is soft as butter after PGI made it almost a 1 shot kill to the nose and my other clan mechs are getting nerfed almost to unusable but still tougher than most IS mechs.

Plus all the heat add-ons to weapons suckkk its just a bad way to balance the game.

[Mystere]

WolvesX, on 07 March 2017 - 01:52 AM, said:

So what do you think? Do you like a challage? Will you still fight for the IS?

I am leaning toward finally splitting my account into two and designate the new one IS.

Edited by Mystere, 07 March 2017 - 11:19 AM.

[Bud Crue]

L Y N X, on 07 March 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

I'll reserve judgement until the new skill point system goes live... Why would the devs undo all or most of the balancing just to begin again? let's all wait to condemn PGI until after they mess up, not before.

Don't reserve judgement. Get on the PTS and give them your judgment now. If everyone waits to tell them what they think after the fact, its too late. We will get nerfed mechs and the skills tree as is. Don't wait. The system as proposed is on the PTS for a reason. Get in there and tear it apart and -at least in theory- tell PGI how to make it better, but don't reserve judgement; they NEED your judgement.

[Rizzwind]

I have no issue not using the current meta on the skill tree changing the build and owning clan mechs 1v1. After the 1st few tries with the meta running now the tree does a very good job of killing it off. I suggest looking for new builds now since it's free to experiment.

Edited by Rizzwind, 07 March 2017 - 11:30 AM.

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 March 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

But whatever. Hell people get butthurt and complain when PGI gives them free mechs, so of course they will do so here, also.

This was something that really shocked me, especially because I have never seen this in any other game, just here.

Snowhawk, on 07 March 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

You're a merc --- so your loyalty is severely in question.

[Bishop Steiner]

Novakaine, on 07 March 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

But I figure PGI has long since given the IS faction the finger.

Seriously the oldest and most ridiculous claim. Clanners all cry that IS too stronk, IS whines PGI hates them, Clans whine Russ said he hates the clans, etc.......