17 replies to this topic

[HiAndromon]

It's better, objectively better:

1: It's simplier and most of gamers are familiarized with the progression system of, like an RPG for example, FFXII. Way less gimmick than what we have now. Now about modules and etc... it will be way better presented to the new player compacted in a single game mechanic.

2: We can customize while we learn about our mechs, this will also make bad first choises of mechs viable in the long run.

3: the player have have a place to put c-bills while he get more mech bays. My mech bays will not be spent, and i don't need to play with variants that i don't like to master the one i like, it will cost less also because i don't need to make all 3 variants stronger to develop myself faster, so endo and armament will be spend only on the one that i like, still if i want other variants of the same chassis i can get creative.

4: It cost's less and take less time.

[Old-dirty B]

Perhaps its better then what we have, but just slightly... for a whole new system added to a game after several years its pretty mediocre - there are so many ideas and examples around that show it could have been so much better.

[Dr Mlem]

HiAndromon, on 09 March 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

It's better, objectively better:

1: It's simplier and most of gamers are familiarized with the progression system of, like an RPG for example, FFXII. Way less gimmick than what we have now. Now about modules and etc... it will be way better presented to the new player compacted in a single game mechanic.

2: We can customize while we learn about our mechs, this will also make bad first choises of mechs viable in the long run.

3: the player have have a place to put c-bills while he get more mech bays. My mech bays will not be spent, and i don't need to play with variants that i don't like to master the one i like, it will cost less also because i don't need to make all 3 variants stronger to develop myself faster, so endo and armament will be spend only on the one that i like, still if i want other variants of the same chassis i can get creative.

4: It cost's less and take less time.

I would also say a positive is that I'm able to play Innersphere mechs without feeling bad about it. Its smarter as a new player in the old system to work on one faction. If I split my time and player XP between Clan and IS, I am at a distinct disadvantage with certain weapon groups. What limited resources I do have, needs to be prioritized on unlocking things tied to my account.

That cooldown reduction, or range is nothing to sneeze at. In the new system, I'm at the disadvantage everyone starts with a new mech. I'll be able to make this mech as good as everyone else, regardless of clan or IS.

(and yes, this new skill system still has problems. Also for long time accounts. But at least another positive note)

Edited by Lazy Badger, 09 March 2017 - 02:35 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

I agree that it's better. Because what we had is basically the worst skill tree I have ever encountered in any game that I can think of. But the last one was bad because it forced you to grind 40,000 XP per mech (or whatever it was) in order to master it and compete on a level playing field with other guys. The new one is bad because it forces you to grind a lot more and pay c-bills on top of that. So it's definitely two steps forward, and one step back.

I would also say that this game has been developed at a pretty slow pace since 2012, especially if you compare it with all the things PGI was talking about. Look at this post from 5 (!) years ago and imagine if PGI had actually gone and said: "By the way, the new skill tree is coming... five years from now".

http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

So I don't think many people are disputing that the new skill tree is at least a tiny bit of progress from the previous skill tree. It's just that it took five years to get here, and in the end it feels like we got a rushed, half-baked and unpopular feature, despite the very clear feedback that the players gave to PGI.

I appreciate people looking at the silver lining, but the whole "well, at least it's better than what we had" argument has its limits after 5 years.



This is basically what many players asked for. It's what PGI described 5 years ago. There would have been so many upsides to just listening to player feedback and actually fulfilling the ideas that PGI used as part of their marketing in 2012. "Hey, remember this stuff we talked about? Now we're actually delivering."

Instead, they tried to say that the current skill tree was made to stop weapon boating? I don't even know what to say to that.

[HiAndromon]

Alistair Winter, on 09 March 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

I agree that it's better. Because what we had is basically the worst skill tree I have ever encountered in any game that I can think of. But the last one was bad because it forced you to grind 40,000 XP per mech (or whatever it was) in order to master it and compete on a level playing field with other guys. The new one is bad because it forces you to grind a lot more and pay c-bills on top of that. So it's definitely two steps forward, and one step back.

I would also say that this game has been developed at a pretty slow pace since 2012, especially if you compare it with all the things PGI was talking about. Look at this post from 5 (!) years ago and imagine if PGI had actually gone and said: "By the way, the new skill tree is coming... five years from now".

http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

So I don't think many people are disputing that the new skill tree is at least a tiny bit of progress from the previous skill tree. It's just that it took five years to get here, and in the end it feels like we got a rushed, half-baked and unpopular feature, despite the very clear feedback that the players gave to PGI.

I appreciate people looking at the silver lining, but the whole "well, at least it's better than what we had" argument has its limits after 5 years.



This is basically what many players asked for. It's what PGI described 5 years ago. There would have been so many upsides to just listening to player feedback and actually fulfilling the ideas that PGI used as part of their marketing in 2012. "Hey, remember this stuff we talked about? Now we're actually delivering."

Instead, they tried to say that the current skill tree was made to stop weapon boating? I don't even know what to say to that.

About the c-bills costs, i don't think it's that big of a deal, if i remember correctly it is like 5m or something to fully master a mech, they are merging two things into one with that, because we already spend both, xp and c-bills to amster a mech, but in separate ways, now it would be cheaper and more simplified.

That tree you posted would be amazing, but we can hope they will change the skill tree after it goes live, and they probably will have better feedback once that goes serious, and people start making meta predictions.

[Dark Horse X]

So, if I want the dealer to install an optional item on my vehicle like leather seats, does the dealer tell me he can't unless I put the halo headlights on first?

The new system in having to unlock nodes not needed/wanted for the specialization of the mech as we each see fit is a lot like having to upgrade the headlights before you can upgrade the seats.

It's total BS on PGI's part; they know it and some of us know it.

Edited by Vlad Dragu, 09 March 2017 - 01:51 PM.

[JC Daxion]

Vlad Dragu, on 09 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

So, if I want the dealer to install an optional item on my vehicle like leather seats, does the dealer tell me he can't unless I put the halo headlights on first?

I don't know how many cars you have bought.. But Plenty! Can't get leather seats without the sunroof.. can't have the sunroof with out the radio pack.. Can't get the radio pack with out electric windows..

Yes they have some things that you can add on one by one, But most are part of packages.. No you can't get the spoiler with out the Foglamps...

[Andi Nagasia]

it should be better for New Players then what we currently have,
in this New System most every match even a loss should net you at least enough for a single skill node,

for new plays just starting out, or for players which small mech counts this will be much better,
for those with hundreds of mechs, this may hurt as it will take a good bit to get everything mastered,

[Dark Horse X]

JC Daxion, on 09 March 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

I don't know how many cars you have bought.. But Plenty! Can't get leather seats without the sunroof.. can't have the sunroof with out the radio pack.. Can't get the radio pack with out electric windows..

Yes they have some things that you can add on one by one, But most are part of packages.. No you can't get the spoiler with out the Foglamps...

Lol, but that is different than having to upgrade the lights to get better seats. Or new tires in order to get a different sound system........

[JC Daxion]

I really do see the system much better for a new player. Spend way less time/money to get rolling on a handful of mechs. You can build a drop deck with your 4 starter bays, and a tiny bit of grind.. (extra after c-bill bonus for first 25 matches) 25m starter, another 30-40m you should have your deck. That is just a little more than the cost of 3 heavy/assault.


my IS account is 4 years old, 125 bucks, and 80 mechs, 1 billion credits. I play about 15 mechs regularly, and should be able to master them under new system. Many of those 80, (30+ i never even got to master, and more like never past basics because i was busy leveling mechs i didn't play to unlock skills.)

Clan account 1 year old, shared time with IS account, 30 bucks, 24 mechs, 250m C-bills. about 12 are mechs i play a lot, or i should say, how many i have enough money to master under new system.


One took me years to get the same amount as something i did splitting time between accounts. Seams like the clan account cost less, spent far less time, and got more bang for my buck. I say my clan account is under the new system, because that is how i have built it after i bought 3 timbers and 3 stormcrows, 2 nova and 2 EXE's to start it. Everything else i just bought mechs i wanted.



The thing i'm looking forward to most are playing about 6 mechs, that i never even leveled, to see how leveling works under the new system. Just buying only 1 mech that i wanted, i have plenty of money to master them. heck just not having to buy endo+double heat sink upgrades will pay for the cost of leveling the one i did buy.. (endo+double*2=mastered mech)

Vlad Dragu, on 09 March 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

Lol, but that is different than having to upgrade the lights to get better seats. Or new tires in order to get a different sound system........

how is it different than having to buy a new radio to get a sunroof? and yea.. Often you need the top sound package to get the nice Rim package.. Cause rims and radio are connected right?

[Dark Horse X]

JC Daxion, on 09 March 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

how is it different than having to buy a new radio to get a sunroof? and yea.. Often you need the top sound package to get the nice Rim package.. Cause rims and radio are connected right?

It's different in that we are NOT talking about the creature comforts of luxury. Why would I have to buy a Energy node to get to the next Ballistic node, IF I am only focusing on the Energy effectiveness of the mech? Why would I have to purchase a Missile node to further get to another Energy node? You want to throw apples into the mix with oranges.

It's a waste, it is non-sensical and supporting stupid choices is a choice to support stupidity.

Your choice is for stupidity, or you're a white knight. Either way, troll on.

[Dark Horse X]

Star Commander Horse, on 09 March 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

Though the NST admittedly has the one nice feature of being able to get more mech modules installed than we have now, what I personally do not like about it is that it can shoe-horn you into having one and only one weapons loadout for a chassis if you want to optimize the installed weapon systems. Or you'll have to pay MC to respec the weapon skill tree every time you decide to change out weapons.

Also, whenever they make weapon changes that drastically affect gameplay (think: Ghost Heat, PPC's, LRM's, etc., in the past), this would then generate a huge cost to the player if they want to respec that mech.

[WarHippy]

JC Daxion, on 09 March 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

I don't know how many cars you have bought.. But Plenty! Can't get leather seats without the sunroof.. can't have the sunroof with out the radio pack.. Can't get the radio pack with out electric windows..

Yes they have some things that you can add on one by one, But most are part of packages.. No you can't get the spoiler with out the Foglamps...

Out of all of the cars I have ever bought I have never had that problem...
Sunroof/moonroof, leather seats, fog lights etc. have always been separate items that I could add or remove as desired. Now if I wanted the navigation system I needed the high end audio system, but that all hooks into the same place on the dash so that isn't exactly surprising.

I guess if you are used to being forced into all those other options to get the things you want on your car I can see why this skill tree doesn't bother you much. A sucker really is born every min.

[JC Daxion]

Vlad Dragu, on 09 March 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

It's different in that we are NOT talking about the creature comforts of luxury. Why would I have to buy a Energy node to get to the next Ballistic node, IF I am only focusing on the Energy effectiveness of the mech? Why would I have to purchase a Missile node to further get to another Energy node? You want to throw apples into the mix with oranges.

It's a waste, it is non-sensical and supporting stupid choices is a choice to support stupidity.

Your choice is for stupidity, or you're a white knight. Either way, troll on.

It's called balancing boats... And you DON"T need to buy a energy node, or ballistic node, Or missile node.. If you stick to that side of the tree. You NEED to take burn nodes if you adventure into the other sides for futher boosting your boat..


You can very easily skip some of the generic nodes on the other side of the tree and focus on other things, like operations/movement/sensors, or what ever..

But if you can come up with a better way to balance boats with out having burn nodes, i'd love to hear. Anyway you slice it, if you just had one weapon you would use less nodes. But as i said, you don't have to take those boxes, you are free to spend skill points in other trees.



As for cost.. I bought a warhawk, direwolf, adder, kit fox, and medusa.. the money i saved just by not having to by 4 extra assaults, i have enough money to level all those mechs, along with 7 others.. (66 mill)

WarHippy, on 09 March 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Out of all of the cars I have ever bought I have never had that problem...
Sunroof/moonroof, leather seats, fog lights etc. have always been separate items that I could add or remove as desired. Now if I wanted the navigation system I needed the high end audio system, but that all hooks into the same place on the dash so that isn't exactly surprising.

I guess if you are used to being forced into all those other options to get the things you want on your car I can see why this skill tree doesn't bother you much. A sucker really is born every min.

Really?? I have NEVER seen leather seats or a sunroof go into the bare basic bare bones model of a car.. then again, when you say navigation system, you are talking about higher end cars for the most part, so maybe that is where they start.. You'd be hard pressed to by a base line economy car and toss in a sunroof or leather seats only.. Sadly the cars i have bought never even had the leather seat option.. I guess i don't spend enough on my rides..

I still get the sunroof, but it always needed the interior upgrade package.


But hey, if you know of a nice economy car for around 15k that i can get leather seats and a sunroof, and i can skip the radio upgrade because i will install my own custom car system.. Please let me know... PS it needs to be a 2 door.

Edited by JC Daxion, 09 March 2017 - 03:24 PM.

[WarHippy]

JC Daxion, on 09 March 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Really?? I have NEVER seen leather seats or a sunroof go into the bare basic bare bones model of a car.. then again, when you say navigation system, you are talking about higher end cars for the most part, so maybe that is where they start.. You'd be hard pressed to by a base line economy car and toss in a sunroof or leather seats only.. Sadly the cars i have bought never even had the leather seat option.. I guess i don't spend enough on my rides..

I don't know. I wouldn't exactly call a Ford Taurus a fancy car when I got that car way back when and I still had the choice of leather seats and/or a moonroof. Cars I have had since then have all been the same way, but perhaps they are not economy cars either.

JC Daxion, on 09 March 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I still get the sunroof, but it always needed the interior upgrade package.

*shrug* I got a moonroof on my current car, but no leather seats or anything fancy interior wise. Never much liked leather anyway.

JC Daxion, on 09 March 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

But hey, if you know of a nice economy car for around 15k that i can get leather seats and a sunroof, and i can skip the radio upgrade because i will install my own custom car system.. Please let me know... PS it needs to be a 2 door.

I will keep an eye out.

[JC Daxion]

Totally off topic.. Sorry OP.. (but yea Taurus is more fancy, it's closer to the mustang/camaro level, I remember back in the day the Taurus SHO, that thing was awesome! tweaked a bit they could beat 5.0 litter mustangs. They took the Bottle (NOS) like magic. All my cars till the latest one which is a 2009, Electric windows and locks were an upgrade.. I'm old..


But on topic, If you have a couple accounts, like mine are so different, also being clan as well verse my Vet IS.. IS is a much more expensive way to play, verse clan and New players. But i think IS is solid, just costs lots more. Maybe comp people will disagree but from a decent pug player, i find them pretty good.

[Dark Horse X]

JC Daxion, on 09 March 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

It's called balancing boats... And you DON"T need to buy a energy node, or ballistic node, Or missile node.. If you stick to that side of the tree. You NEED to take burn nodes if you adventure into the other sides for futher boosting your boat.

According to what you just said, there are burn nodes on both sides of the tree. You can't have it both ways, either there are burn nodes or aren't burn nodes.

A linear tree without having to unlock anything unrelated to the specific makes perfect sense.

[Catra Lanis]

What was the cost again, 800XP/node so 91x800XP for a fully mastered mech, correct?

Edited by Catra Lanis, 11 March 2017 - 07:10 AM.