44 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Right. So, we're back to what I said earlier: the solution is to actually make all the available skills worthwhile. If a skill can't be made worthwhile, take it out of the game. If it can be, make it useful. If needed, add new worthwhile skills. But the net result needs to be "make all the skills worthwhile."

The solution is to subdivide the skill tree into different roles. For example, lets say 3 roles like command/support, striker/assault, recon/skirmisher. And each role would have its own unique skill tree.

You then force players to pick one role per mech and they can only put skill points in skills belonging to the chosen role. That forces a meaningful choice on the player and makes sure that no single player has access to every skill. Which in turn reinforces the teamwork aspect of the game because you have to rely on other players for skills you cant use. A system like that is also impossible to min/max because no matter which role you choose youre missing out on 2/3rds of the other skills (assuming 3 different roles).

A skill tree that doesnt force meaningful choices on the player is really no different from a progression tree. Once people figure out how to min/max it, the skill tree were getting will be no different than what we had before; aside from the fact it will be needlessly overcomplex and cost way too much xp/cbills. Again what we need is actual role warfare with meaningful choices, not an expensive and huge progression tree that will just get min/maxed to the point where everyone takes the same skills.

Edited by Khobai, 12 March 2017 - 11:47 PM.

[NeoCodex]

oldradagast, on 12 March 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Two reasons for the maze, as far as I can tell:

- Trying to substitute GRIND for CONTENT. The bigger they make the tree, the more pretend "content" they've added to the game. Look at all those skill nodes, each doing almost nothing! It's beautiful! Look at all the work put into this! Yeah, right. But the key part is grind, grind, GRIND! Would you like to buy some premium time, cheapskate, to regrind all your mechs?

- Lousy video game design skills and failure to understand what the game needs (ROLES, not GRIND). Hiding the same mandatory skills everyone needs behind a wall of trash skills that are not needed is not "choice" or good video game design. Even World of Warcraft gave up that failed idea years ago, but here we are in 2017, with PGI reinventing the wheel. All this silly setup does is tick people off and make certain that they spend more time lacking "the same good skills every mech needs" as they eagerly get a jumpjet boost for mechs without jumpjets or get a missile boost for their mech that has no missile hardpoints. Just mediocre game design, and nothing more.

This post, oh this post! Nailed it on the head. Nailed it. It was exactly my thoughts when I looked at the tree as well. "Look at all this content we created". Yeah, right. This is typically PGI bad.

There are no tradeoff choices that the dev was speaking about. It's just artificial grind. Tradeoff is a choice between agility or armor. Between max heat capacity or cooling efficiency. Radar derp or seismic sensor. Laser range or duration. This would create builds and different paths. Instead they just articifically bloated our old build goals with the crap modules we never wanted before. No, we don't want 360 retention and hill climb. But yet, we have to pay for it now. And we can still min max our alpha vomit builds into overpowered, one dimensional builds. We just have to pay a tax of more grind for it. What for? For this beautiful maze, that serves no other purpose than more grind and cbill sink. "Content". Mediocre, Russ. Mediocre.

It shouldn't be a tree. Branching choices would make much more sense for gameplay and build diversity. It's basic game design principles. Instead they do it the nonsense PGI way.

Edited by NeoCodex, 12 March 2017 - 11:56 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

In it's current form i'll wait for meta mechs and others to make "builds" for each mech i own.

[NeoCodex]

I just see no purpose in playing to grind the skill trees back to the point where we were before. It changes nothing. If it had branching choices like I posted above, then it would be interesting. I'll probably not bother with the game anymore until we have something like that.

[xengk]

Spheroid, on 12 March 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

Somebody must have preferred Civilization Beyond Earth to Civ 5.

I am more of a Alpha Centauri man.

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 12 March 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

The current skill tree in MWO has nothing on Final Fantasy X "Sphere Grid"

and ya'll call yourselves gamers.

We need to go deeper, like Path of Exile deeper.

Spoiler