156 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

I mean, all it takes is for somebody to actually shoot back at the Warhammer while it stares with its broad and easily isolated sides, so...same difference IMHO. This is why the NTG replaces both.

Which is honestly why I was never a fan of the Whammy compared to the Timby even during the MWOWC. The difference is the Marauder's side is just easier to isolate because it is such a big target from the side (and the arms don't block it quite as well as they do on the Whammy).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 15 March 2017 - 01:41 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 March 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

I doubt it. We already know there is going to be a "wind up" and "wind down" time, and the jam chance is probably going to be very prohibitive. How many RACs can one even fit on a Jager? 3 RAC2s? 2 RAC2s 1 RAC5?

Don't know, not sure how pgi is going to make the size/weight of them..or what they will set their rate of fire at...

[Gas Guzzler]

Bulletsponge0, on 15 March 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Don't know, not sure how pgi is going to make the size/weight of them..or what they will set their rate of fire at...

https://www.reddit.c...ats_from_sarna/

PGI doesn't mess with size and weight so you can count on their size and weight being the same as table top. Fire rate is up for debate, but an RAC5 is 10 tons and 6 slots. For two RAC5s you can pretty much take 3 cUAC5s and have a few slots left over. I am much more excited for IS UAC10s.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bulletsponge0, on 15 March 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

Might depend on if they make the RACs one shot or burst. Heck, it could resurrect the Jaegermech dakka builds if each projectile fired by the RAC is for full damage

I highly highly doubt that will happen. I anticipate firehose.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 March 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

I enjoy running that MAD-3R build in quick play, just for the "fun to play" factor. Its effective enough.



Honestly the WHM took a noticeable hit with that durability nerf, but still, I don't run XL Marauders. Its too easy to XL check them.

Well, let me tell you my anecdotal experience: the few times AS scrimmed last year and I got to drive a Marauder instead of whatever proven-but-obsolete Medium, the enemy basically had to chew through the entire 'Mech before they scored an XL check, if they got one at all. I even distinctly recall taking one of SJR's TBRs from fresh to nil while sustaining fire from four at once on Tourmaline before going down cherry all over, and that was with a brawl-poke 5D, where an XL check should have happened immediately. I really do not think skill was a factor, there, so I can only conclude that it is not actually that easy to XL check when being played to its strengths. Granted, the 'Mech has gotten bigger and slower since then, but not by that much...because chicken walker. Most Marauders in QP are just miserable.

The nature of the dakka stare is that you are front-forward anyway and, in my experience, few 'Mechs are better at front-forward than the Marauders (both Clan and IS).

[Templar Dane]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 March 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Anything could be garbage. Heavy PPCs could be garbage, IS UACs could be garbage if they behave exactly like Clan UACs but weigh more and take up more slots. We won't REALLY know how good things are until we see the specs.

Yeah, light/heavy gauss could be bad

Light/heavy/snub ppcs could be bad.

MRMs could be bad.

RACs could be bad.

IS ultra 2/10/20 could be bad.

Rocket launchers could be bad.

Stealth armor could be bad.

But, what are the odds that all of that is bad compared to ATMs/heavy lasers being bad?

[Y E O N N E]

Templar Dane, on 15 March 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Yeah, light/heavy gauss could be bad

Light/heavy/snub ppcs could be bad.

MRMs could be bad.

RACs could be bad.

IS ultra 2/10/20 could be bad.

Rocket launchers could be bad.

Stealth armor could be bad.

But, what are the odds that all of that is bad compared to ATMs/heavy lasers being bad?

Given that everything in the IS arsenal right now is inherently bad without quirks, save maybe SRMs? Very high.

[Sedmeister]

Reading this thread first thing in the morning on my day off. The cafe staff have been looking over at me regularly as I lol myself like a little kid!

A couple of things:

1) I have only played this game for about a year and a half.
2) I play both IS and Clan.
3) I prefer IS. (Kurita loyalist because...)
4) I believe Clan is easy mode. My stats over 1.5 years bear this out.

Historically, when I have been on forums where IS players have complained about imbalance, the standard Clan response seems to be "get gud". I have not seen any of that in this forum yet.

So if you are a clanner and are a bit upset about impending tech, maybe you need to:

1) Work on your tactics,
2) Stop bringing LRM's, and of course...
3) Get Gud?

<Geez that felt so good!>

On a serious note, yesterdays announcement had the immediate response of getting quite a few of my IS loyalist mates who have drifted away from the game over the last 12 months cautiously excited.

Cautious because at the end of the day, the fact is PGI have a patchy record of announcing something and then having issues with implementation.

But Excitement because finally, the only real way to balance MWO is to advance the time line and give comparable tech to IS.

I am interested in two things.

1) Our unit (and many other loyalist units I have friends in) normally drops on a weekend. I am fascinated to see the numbers this weekend in light of this announcement.
2) I would be fascinated to see active player numbers over the next few months as a result of this announcement.

Like my unit buds, I too am cautiously optimistic about this.

And as an aside, suddenly it seems that many of the unclear intentions that PGI had in terms of the skill trees system seem to make sence in light of this announcement.

Regardless, thanks for making me snort my coffee through my nose in my local cafe this morning everyone! Much appreciated.

[Shadowomega1]

brroleg, on 15 March 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

Looked at Sarna



So HAG is basically clans analog of RAC. So why pgi dont give clans HAGs alongside with IS getting RACs?

Civil war Time line and tech line they set is 3062-3067. While the first HAGs which is HAG 20 and HAG 30 are both from 3068, and HAG 40 is 3069 so right there is the reason the clan isn't getting the HAG.

Khobai, on 15 March 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

except a lighter engine means you can take a bigger rated engine

and a bigger rated engine means you can fit more internal DHS so I dont really know what youre talking about

again LFE is huge for IS. And clans should really get XXL to help balance it out.

LOL like heck any pilot would want to use the XXL, its larger 3 crits per torso, and makes waste heat just from standing still so just to avoid heating up you need to shut yourself off.

"The XXL engine is the present result of such efforts, and weighs one-third as much as a standard fusion engine, but with some significant drawbacks in its present form. The XXL's light but bulky shielding technology takes up twice the space in side torso sections as a Inner Sphere or Clan XL engine of similar output, is five times as expensive as a comparable XL engine, and - most crippling - produces greatly increased heat. Shaving the engine shielding down to the bare minimum for safe operation, the XXL engine produces waste heat even standing still, and doubling the amount of heat for the use of a Mech movement systems." Quote from Sarna.net.

Oberost, on 15 March 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

Sorry, but this bull crap.

You have the option of using a STD engine in your Clan battlemechs to avoid the XL penalties. Have you seen many STD Clan battlemechs?

For several months My Hunchback IIC ran std with 2 UAC 10s and 2 ER Mediums, the reaction to most pilots thinking I was down and out with the lose of the second box was freaking funny to see.

Kin3ticX, on 15 March 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

*snip*

The Heavy Medium Laser is 1 ton and does 10 damage? wow....

Heavy Large laser is 4 tons and does 15 damage....wow again

Same range as IS std Lasers, and a **** ton more heat. as for ATMs if they had the timeline up to 3068 IS would have MML which is their version of the ATM.

Edited by Shadowomega1, 15 March 2017 - 03:13 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Khobai, on 14 March 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

except standard mechs are better than omnimechs. the only thing keeping it kindve balanced now is clans having better tech.

If you suddenly give IS the same tech as clans then omnimechs will need a new advantage. otherwise omnimechs will suck.

although clan standard mechs will likely be fine. but omnimechs are gonna need a serious buff.

Your right on the money here. To put it simply, current Clan mechs and equipment have all been balanced (nerfed) to bring them in line with current IS mechs and equipment and while there might be a few Clan mechs (usually only the battlemechs) that stand out and may give the Clans an existing overall advantage in power, many, if not most other Clan mechs, especially omnimechs don't tend to have a huge advantage over IS mechs. Sure the KDK might be the best Assault mech but what about the Gladiator or the Executioner? Generally speaking I would put several IS Assault mechs above them in relative power and I think alot of people are forgetting this.

Then throw in all this new IS equipment which while maybe not quite as good as its Clan equivalent on a case per case basis, will still be at least 80% as good and now you have a balance issue. Also you are throwing in things like the IS rotary ACs, light and heavy PPCs, Snub Nose PPCs, Light and Heavy Gauss Rifles, all new equipment the Clans don't get and there is more potential for imbalance.

So what this means to me is that the clans are going to need to be entirely rebalanced. Omnimechs especially. Mechanisms like the locked critical slots, locked JJs, locked endo, heck maybe even locked engines might need to go away. Heat on Clan weapons may need to be adjusted. Clan laser beam duration might need to be adjust. All this is going to be required.

What I am sure of though, is that PGI isn't going to be able to just toss in these new weapons and leave the existing Clan tech base along, that just isn't going to work.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bogus, on 14 March 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

Clan still has lots of high torso hardpoints, Clan still has more/lighter guns, Clan still gets full-bore XL rather than somewhat heavier LFE, etc. and Clan is also getting some very potent new toys.

Clan will be fine, get the mechs that interest you.

Why do people forget the Heat costs Clans pay for all those light weight weapons. Hell in alot of cases that TOTAL tonnage spend and crit spaced used is higher on a Clan Mech for a given weapon due to the fact that the Clan mech has to mount several more DHS to offset the heat penalty they pay.

Take a Clan ER ML. It is a 6 heat weapon...6 HEAT. That is 50% HOTTER than an IS ML. The both weight 1 ton and take on slot but the Clan Mech has to take an additional DHS to offset the heat which makes a Clan ER ML into a 2 ton, 3 slot weapon. Sure you save a ton here, maybe a slot there on a given weapon or piece of equipment but when your required to add 3-5 more DHS on your mech to keep those weapons cool, that tonnage and slot advantage goes bye bye fast.

[Scout Derek]

Viktor Drake, on 15 March 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Why do people forget the Heat costs Clans pay for all those light weight weapons. Hell in alot of cases that TOTAL tonnage spend and crit spaced used is higher on a Clan Mech for a given weapon due to the fact that the Clan mech has to mount several more DHS to offset the heat penalty they pay.

Take a Clan ER ML. It is a 6 heat weapon...6 HEAT. That is 50% HOTTER than an IS ML. The both weight 1 ton and take on slot but the Clan Mech has to take an additional DHS to offset the heat which makes a Clan ER ML into a 2 ton, 3 slot weapon. Sure you save a ton here, maybe a slot there on a given weapon or piece of equipment but when your required to add 3-5 more DHS on your mech to keep those weapons cool, that tonnage and slot advantage goes bye bye fast.

You forget that the Clan medium has more range too.

Essentially its either Heat Efficient and short range, or High Damage+Range but High heat.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

The nature of the dakka stare is that you are front-forward anyway and, in my experience, few 'Mechs are better at front-forward than the Marauders (both Clan and IS).

I agree, but even during a push, it is rare that nothing is ever going to be on your flank.

[The Lost Boy]

The IS stuff will be Clan lite. Oh goody the IS gets its own Dire Whale! Itll be DOA. Clan get Madcat II! Can you say super-marauder IIC! Yeah you can keep the Annihlator, the MAD CAT mk2 will be everything and more folks thought the Supernova was gonna be.

The MADCAT 2 will EASILY become the best mech in the game.

Look the F out.

[Mcgral18]

Lemming of the BDA, on 15 March 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

The IS stuff will be Clan lite. Oh goody the IS gets its own Dire Whale! Itll be DOA. Clan get Madcat II! Can you say super-marauder IIC! Yeah you can keep the Annihlator, the MAD CAT mk2 will be everything and more folks thought the Supernova was gonna be.

The MADCAT 2 will EASILY become the best mech in the game.

Look the F out.

Best is pushing it

Good, is a solid guess

[The Lost Boy]

Large engine cap, high mounted ballistics, and energy, clan tech, lots of armor. Throw in missiles/rockets whatever and itll be waaaay good. 70kph + speed on a 90 ton clan battlemech. Whats not to love?

[Y E O N N E]

Lemming of the BDA, on 15 March 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Large engine cap, high mounted ballistics, and energy, clan tech, lots of armor. Throw in missiles/rockets whatever and itll be waaaay good. 70kph + speed on a 90 ton clan battlemech. Whats not to love?

Engine decoupling and regulated agility for powerful bigs.

*mic drop*

[The Lost Boy]

Decouple all you want 70kph + is still 70kph+ in 90 tons will all sorts of nasty hardpoints and hardware to deal with. The only IS assaults that will keep up are the Boars Head, Battlemaster, and maybe the Zeus. The loadouts on the MADCAT 2 will crush those mechs hands down.

[Y E O N N E]

Lemming of the BDA, on 15 March 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Decouple all you want 70kph + is still 70kph+ in 90 tons will all sorts of nasty hardpoints and hardware to deal with. The only IS assaults that will keep up are the Boars Head, Battlemaster, and maybe the Zeus. The loadouts on the MADCAT 2 will crush those mechs hands down.

You say that, but if PGI decides to limit its turn rate and/or torso twist, it will be good only when supported by the team (which is how it should be).

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Lances107, on 15 March 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

Funny how I hear this all the time but during any time of game play things end up on a more even footing. This statement reminds me of the launch of the Kodiak. Every clan pilot was telling you IS guys to just target the right/left torso and the kodiak crumbles. The info was correct but you refused to hear or use it. Instead you bitched and moaned about the kodiak. Clan mechs are not superior in every imaginable way, that is a cart blanket general statement. There is no such thing as a easy mode mech. The worse player could get into the most considered op mech, and he would still do terrible. I suggest you focus on playing the game and learning these basic truths about mechwarrior online. Asking for 10 tons to make the cougar viable is not asking for the moon.

WOW... so much dumb that I literally have no idea where to start dissecting how truly wrong you are. Though if it was anywhere in that sea of terrible it would be "KDK-3 not OP cause reasons" one... thanks for that. Cause KDK-3 is EASY MODE for me... like it is so unsatisfying to play because walking people down in the Dakka-Bear is the same level as playing a 7 year old at checkers

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 15 March 2017 - 05:52 PM.